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Encore un sound-off dégoûtant du Globe and Mail. Cette fois, Kyoto sert de prétexte pour cracher sur le Québec.
Quebec miffed at Kyoto snub

RHÉAL SÉGUIN

Quebec miffed at Kyoto snub
RHÉAL SÉGUIN

Globe and Mail Update

QUEBEC — Forty-five seconds is all Quebec demanded to make its case in support of the Kyoto Protocol on climate change at an international meeting in Nairobi.

But Thursday, the federal government said no, making it clear that in international forums Canada speaks with one voice.

Quebec's unequivocal support of the accord contradicts the position federal Environment Minister Rona Ambrose intends to defend next week at the Nairobi meeting.

“It has been agreed that Canada will speak with one voice in Nairobi and we have ... many common objectives and because of that we must speak with one voice,” she told reporters Thursday in Ottawa.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government has tabled a Clean Air Act that critics argue has abandoned the greenhouse gas emission targets to which Canada was committed under the Kyoto accord.

Quebec has tabled its own plan, which, unlike Ottawa's, embraces the Kyoto targets set for 2012. The province is demanding $328-million from Ottawa to implement its climate-change program.

Quebec Environment Minister Claude Béchard, who will attend the Nairobi meeting, warned that if Ms. Ambrose neglects to express Quebec's views that the Kyoto targets are not only realistic but achievable, he will take his case outside the conference room and openly challenge the federal government's position in private meetings, forums and public discussions with representatives of other countries.

Backed by a coalition of environmental groups and Quebec public opinion, Mr. Béchard said if Ottawa wants to speak with one voice it had better be sure that the views of Quebeckers are also expressed.

“I think they are very nervous. When Ottawa will say that it is not able to meet the Kyoto targets, we will say that that is not exactly the truth because there is one part of Canada where it is possible to achieve those targets,” Mr. Béchard said Thursday.

Quebec fully understands the embarrassment its position could cause Ottawa at the international forum. Mr. Béchard noted that the absence of unity at the meeting could undermine Mr. Harper's credibility, not only on the environment but also with respect to the model of open federalism that includes a greater voice for Quebec in international forums.

“It's not a perfect model. Every model can be improved,” Mr. Béchard said. “On the issue of the environment, we would have been better off to draft a common position before going to the meeting. We won't let ourselves be overwhelmed.... We will say that Kyoto is possible, it is achievable and we have a good plan to achieve it.”

In Ottawa, the Opposition accused Mr. Harper of defending a policy that abandons Canada's role as world leader on the environment. “The Minister of the Environment is not a leader on the environment. She is an anti-leader,” Liberal Opposition Leader Bill Graham said in the Commons.

The Prime Minister said that for the first time the federal government has a realistic plan and clear targets to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

“The [Liberals] signed Canada onto Kyoto a decade ago, for 13 years did not produce a single plan, and now have the gall to actually suggest that they would go to Nairobi and commit us to even more targets while we are still waiting to see their plan after 13 years,” Mr. Harper said in the Commons.

The Nairobi meeting began this week and concludes next Friday. Ms. Ambrose is scheduled to formally outline the federal government's position on the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions on Wednesday. Mr. Béchard said Quebec has not been consulted and has yet to be told what Ms. Ambrose will say at the meeting.

Have Pun, Will Travel from Christmas Island writes: Good for the Harper Government! Quebec doesn't run this country, despite years of Liberal rule. Vote against the Conservatives if you like, sheep, but this is one small victory for freedom in Canada. PS: Kyoto is RUBBISH! and we should officially withdraw from it.


Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Quebec can leave anytime it wants. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. AND PAY YOUR TAB! Je ne parle pas le francais plus.

William Hacock from Ashcroft B.C., Canada writes: Unless I dozed off in the past 65 years, I believe Ottawa still speaks for ALL of Canada. What part of this do Quebeckers not understand.....oh I see, they just want the money from Ottawa. Things never change, what......don't tell me they now have their own Federal party just for the province of Quebec.

V ADS from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Forty-five seconds is not sufficient time for Quebec to explain how it will meet its Kyoto targets by 'clean energy' primarily obtained from the Churchill Falls hydroelectric power project in -- wait for it -- Labrador, which last time I checked was part of Newfoundland and Labrador. What should Quebec get the credits?

Quebec is getting 'carbon-dioxide-emissions-free' power for pennies on the dollar, and is selling that power to the good old U.S. of A for many more dollars on the penny. And last time I checked, the revenue from these windfall power sales were not considered part of the equalization formula! Now it wants a free pass on Kyoto?

Frank Camp from Canada writes: This is dumb. Quebec will snub canada and then ask canada to pay for its kyoto plans... When will canada stand up and not let quebec put a gun to its head. I guess ignatief isn't helping with his whole 'nation' bit... Such a shame


David Ruta from Montreal, Canada writes: While I am not a fan of the position the Conservatives have taken on Kyoto, I still must side with them on this decision. If we want to be taken seriously on the international stage, we can't have provinces fighting agaisnt us.

That being said, I agree with Quebec's position on Kyoto. If they have a plan to reduce GHGs, I think that the federal government should support that. Harper is saying 'Kyoto can't be met..there is no way', meanwhile Quebec is saying 'yes it can...here is how' and yet he ignores them and deny's funding.

If Mr. Harper were still serious about Climate Change they would provide the Quebec government the money they need.


John Hinkley from Thornhill, Canada writes: Quote from article: 'Forty-five seconds is all Quebec demanded to make its case in support of the Kyoto Protocol on climate change at an international meeting in Nairobi.

But Thursday, the federal government said no, making it clear that in international forums Canada speaks with one voice.'

The only reason that Quebec unequivocally supports the accord is because they are able to generate tremendous amounts of electrical power from the land and water sheds they have stolen from the natives.

If they had either or both a different industrial base or natural resources that contradicted the Kyoto Accord, then of course Quebec would not be unequivocally supporting the Kyoto accord.

In this matter Quebec is part of Canada as a whole and there should only be one voice for Canada.

Quebec is miffed. Tough &*#P#P.


James Young from Brantford, Canada writes: This should be interesting. Two voices from Canada at a world conference, with totally opposing views should go well in International circles. I suggest the CPC withdraw Mr. Béchard's passport for the period of the conference.

Of course, the Liberals under Iggy would have no problem with the scenario, since Quebec will be a Nation. I muse about the CPC standing firm.

Quebec is clean as far as greenhouse gases is concerned, since their electricity comes from 'pollution' free water. To bad the conference wasn't about the pollution in the St. Lawrence River.


Stews D. from Canada writes: What is with this province? They have a plan , feel they should be allowed to speak as an independent country ..oh , yeh , but the rest of us pay for the plan!

Go ,Go Now . I've has enough of Quebec and the whining.

And you know I think the majority of Canada feels the same way.
Let us put that to a vote.


Cut The Crap from Canada writes: As a French Canadian I must say, the Quebec PROVINCIAL government is an embarrassment to Canada.


Jim Corrigan from Dundas, Canada writes: I concur.


Cut The Crap from Canada writes: ... and an embarrassment to french CANADIANS!


Bob Rollheiser from Canada writes: When Quebec can pay the piper, it can call the tunes.


Disco Stu from Toronto, Canada writes: If I was the PM, I would listen to Quebec just like I would all the other provinces, no more, no less.

#2, Quebec never 'ran' the country under Liberal rule. And you think this is 'one small victory for freedom in Canada'? Uh sure, the only sheep I see is you desperately trying to make something out of this non - event.


david walters from Canada writes: The Kyoto Accord and Global Warming are all fraudulent. Just read the most followed paper in the UK, the London Telegraph, which, on 5 November, debunked the Global Warming industry, and particularly, the UN. It will have a follow up article on 12 November. Suggest all posters read them before posting again.


J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Quebec is a province.....like all the others....no more, no less. They have no special insight and should be given no special consideration. Nothing more to say, really.

D Scheerer from Waterloo, Canada writes: On international forums, Canada should be speaking with one clear decisive voice. But in this case, Canada is not speaking with one voice because the Harper government does not address the concerns that the majority of Canada's hold - that Canada must (should at the very least make an effort) to meet that international Kyoto requirements that have been signed on to. If the Harper government decides to proceed in its unilateral, narrow minded view on the environment, I congratulate the Quebec government on speaking passionately about there views and concerns on the international stage. It is a bold move against Ottawa, and quite frankly, a move that must be taken against this anti-climate government.


Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: 45 seconds? Sure, and while we're at it, why don't we give 45 seconds for the nations of British Columbia, Alberta, Sask. Manitoba, Ontario, PEI, NFLD, NS, and NB, too? Oh and what about the terriroties, they should have their say at international conferences, clearly they are distinct from the rest of Canada, with all that Northernness and all. Actually, I've noticed Torontonians seem to be rather supportive of the accord and have a different opinion of it than most Canadian's, so they should get a spot too. But then again, those in the 905 don't seem to care as much about global warming than the 416, so I say both should get their say. What about aboriginal 'nations', they should all get their say too! In fact, Ottawa shouldn't even bother going to the conference, lets just send 400 representatives of 'the nationS of Canada'. Bah. SEE, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS when you give seperatists an inch, they want a mile. You let them speak at UNESCO, and suddenly they want to play make-believe real country with a real voice at the UN. Canada already bends over backwards to ensure everything the Federal government does is okay with Quebec which only respresents 22% of Canada's population, the other 78% be damned, so I don't see why they need to send their provincial government up there to better represent them (and who on the international scene cares what a single province in Canada is doing anyways?) Hey, who here knows what Norway's position on Kyoto is? Yeah, neither do I, and Quebec is half as populated and three times as poor, so I don't think anyone in the far flung regions of the globe need to know what Quebec's (or any other provinces) opinion on the accord is either. Let's speak with ONE voice, as much to the chagrin of the never seperating seperatists, we are ONE country afterall.


Charles Wirrell from Cranbrook, B.C., Canada writes: Quebec can be miffed all it wants. It's part of Canada the same as PEI or Ontario or even B.C.
Quebec doesn't seem too anxious to allow the English speakers in Quebec have their own voice. So I guess they set a pretty lousy example for what they now want!!


Justin Campbell from Ottawa, Canada writes: David Ruta, Poster #7, hit the nail right on the head.


The Objectivist from Canada writes: #7 Sadly and cynically, none of them really have a plan to reduce GHG emissions. what they have is a plan to look good to the large part of the population that cares about the environment but not enough to actually become educated or rational on how to address the problem, in short Kyoto makes politicians look good. It will do little for the environment and amount us lots of money to other countries. If any of them wanted to make a difference they would advocate stopping the government induced population growth. stop economic incentives to having and raising kids and stop immigration. you're taking one of your kids Halloween candy pills if you think Kyoto will make a difference as we expand the consumption base by 500k per year.

PQ and Labradour hydro electric? one of the great hoodwinks of this century. unbelievable.

I like Quebec a lot and its people, but have had it with the political whining. go, stay, whatever. but make your call and settle your tab like grownups on the way out, NO MORE TRANSFER PAYMENTS YIPPY! At some point in this recurring, we're a nation, we get to vote to seperate saga, does the rest of the country get to vote to veto them as a province?

Garrett Deyne from Mississauga, Canada writes: When does english canada get to hold a referendum to kick quebec out?


Bob McDonald from Canada writes: All the NeoCons are off base AGAIN. Mike Ignatieff is right. Quebecers must have an independent say in things. How does it hurt Canadians if our representation at this type of international event has a duality - a qualification - a complication. Canada is not a simple country. We are complicated. Enjoy it. Be proud of it. Sure - this may lead to even more diversity. What if Albertans wanted to voice a difference? Should Ottawa let them? What if First Nations wanted to offer another opinion? Should Ottawa stand in the way? NO


Matthew Harper from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm not really concerned about the Conservatives' environment policy. They are not going to be in power long enough to make much of a difference one way or another.


N Witen from Montréal, Canada writes: Vive le Québec libre!!!!!! =)
Sounds like normal Canadian politican bantering to me. I just wish we actually did care about the environment in this country (and I was referring to Canada here.) Despite the threatening overtones, I'm glad to see that at least one province is willing to take a stand on the issue, even if it might be for other reasons. If those of you out west are that upset about Québec being too loud about its views and stances, why don't you ask your MPs to have your provincial governments also come up with environmental plans? The environment is not just a federal jurisdiction, and arguably the provinces do have a say in environmental management. Many people on this blog are good at pointing fingers aren't they? Why don't you go outside and check the air quality tonight? I hear the environment is just dandy out West and getting better everyday!


Andrew Skujins @ http://www.skuj.com from Aurora, Canada writes: I don't know the exact population of Quebec, put the money they 'need' to implement their Kyoto works out to about $40/head. If Quebec's so confident, they can easily put this up for themselves (for a change). Nothing but cheap politicking from the French as usual.


evelyn robinson from Canada writes: Kyoto may not have all the answers but sure beats the lack of any
viable alternative offer by Harper's crew. But, Quebec does not have a separate voice at an international forum any more than any of the other provinces. Since they only wanted 45 seconds; not really wanting to address the issue just trying to set a precedent for a separate voice from the rest of the country.


J A from Ottawa, Canada writes: Québec is not just another province like PEI. It has never been and never will be. To treat Québec 'just like another province' will only hasten its separation from Canada. It is interesting to see how Canadians can understand perfectly the relationship of the Baltic States vs. the former Soviet Union, Tibet vs. China, or even the three fractions (Shia, Sunni, and Kurdish) in Iraq, but somehow cannot see the relationship between Québec and Canada.

Joe Wallach from Canada writes: When did Quebec become a separate country? Answer: NEVER! The Quebec Liberals appear to have joined the PQ. That aside, and whether or not Canadians share the view of the federal government regarding Kyoto also aside, it is time that Quebec was put in it's place, i.e it is a province, not a nation, despite its claim on prominent highway signs outside of Quebec City, that Quebec is the national capital. Canada must therefore speak with one voice PERIOD. If Béchard carries out his childlike threat, Charest should fire him. Ooops, I forgot, Charest is no better.


Josh Ginsberg from Montreal, Canada writes: We should all cheer Quebec for its stance on this issue. Taking action on climate change is too important to be subordinated to a show of unity. The Harper government is mortgaging the long-terms prosperity of Canadians with its shortsighted plan, which takes no action to actively combat global warming until 2050. Furthermore, they have isolated this country from the global effort to resolve what is arguably the most pressing problem of our time.

This government richly deserves to be embarrassed for its stance. If Quebec is willing to pull the curtain on them at an international forum, it can only help expose the Conservatives' ineptitude on the environment file to the world. A little shame may awaken them to the need for immediate action.


Brent Raby from Toronto, writes: What a tease you are Steve.
In December 2005, just before the election, you promised Quebec a greater voice in international institutions. She responded positively, and put out by giving you 10 seats in the January 2006 election. This was quite a conquest for you, considering you had exactly zero seats in Quebec before then. You, in turn, honourably reciprocated and gave her a voice at UNESCO after the election. What a happy relationship! She then wanted to move to the next level and get serious and have her voice heard on Kyoto. You, you cad, having had your way with her in January, are now dumping her on the international stage. She should be barefoot in the kitchen, eh Steve? You'll be back to zero seats soon enough.


Agent Smith from GTA, Canada writes: 1. The position taken by the government of Quebec probably represents more of the Canadian population than that of the Conservatives.

2. How can you have the Minister of the Environment in Canada who won't even utter the words 'Global Warming' or 'Climate Change' address an international forum on Global Warming and Climate Change?


John F. from Edmonton, Canada writes: Mr. Bechard: With all due respect - put a lid on it. This is the kind of action that makes the ROC feel very unkindly toward your province. Sure, you may be right about PM Harper's position on the Kyoto Protocol. But going into that meeting and embarrassing Canada's representatives is totally in poor taste. How would you like it if Albertans went to a Frnacophonie meeting and started bad mouthing Quebec on its human rights record for English Speaking minorities in the past 30 years. I think you would find that very uncomfortable indeed. Let's not get into this mode of communication again, Meech is about all I could stomach for one lifetime.


YYZ Downtown from Toronto, Canada writes: Why should Quebec not get the money for this? We spend billions of dollars on new technologies of cars, garbage, street repairs, yet we can't give the province a miniminal amount, that will effect OUR health... out of the federal coffers.... $328 million dollars??????? We are gambling and playing a dangerous game with the environment. Let Quebec offer ideas to the rest of the nation.


Evan Davies from Canada writes: I agree with Quebec in terms of the Kyoto Protocol. If not through Kyoto, though, we need to do something about climate change at the very least. However, as far as I'm concerned, Canada is a nation and Quebec is a province. And only nations speak at these events.


Thoughtful Pragmatist from Toronto, Canada writes: I agree with Quebec on this one. At least someone is taking a stand.
The Conservative environmental policy is backward, and Rona Ambrose is absolutely unqualified for her portfolio. This government is a joke. At least Quebec recognizes it. Go ahead and embarrass Canada! We deserve it for electing these right-wing creeps.


Carolyn Perkes from Canada writes: Number 33: All partisan politics aside, I think you are right. And as for all the snide comments about Quebec running the country (particularly number 2 writing from the Christmas Islands, deciding who runs the country?), how pathetic! But even more pathetic are the souls who bluster that climate change is a 'fraud.'

e guye from Canada writes: Quebec has no voice at these meetings unless invited to give voice by our Prime Minister at his sole discretion. To say otherwise is to join the bandwagon of such idiots as Michael Ignatieff - and who wants to go there?

Calgary, Canada writes: The Quebec government's site indicates they intend to 'meet' the Kyoto protocol emissions reductions by arriving at 1.5% less emissions than in 1990... yet the Kyoto protocol itself demands reductions of 6%. How can anyone seriously claim that this quarter-of-the-way constitutes actual compliance with the Accord?

And, rather than actually meet even those reductions by itself, Quebec proposes that the rest of the provinces chip in more than a quarter of the expected costs.

This of course is independent of the fact that even if the whole population of Canada committed suicide and stopped thereby all fuel burning for heating, transportation, and manufacturing, the result would be a trivial reduction of less than 3% of the world's emissions.

Basically, the whole Kyoto idea is a farce; we are incapable of affecting global temperature change even if the greenhouse gas explanation were correct.

p m from vancouver, Canada writes: i'm with #23....fair is fair...they got to vote about quebec staying..let's us have a vote about them going!!....maybe we could get some extra money from the feds to advertize the benefits of that side too!


Bob Rollheiser from Canada writes: Quebec has lots of ideas, now how about finding the money from inside Quebec to develop them. Maybe financially helping out a 'have not' province on your borders with some enviormental problem? It may come as a supprise, but other provinces are capeable of having ideas and sometimes impleminting them without transfer payments or federal subsidies.

Gary Gray from Abbotsford, Canada writes: The Nation of Quebec: All of us Provinces will not be happy until we have equal status - one solution is, each Province be called a Nation - the Nation of BC. etc etc this way we would all be equal Nations having our own little quirks and peculiarities - separate but equal under the Empire of Nations Canada. Why not squabble amongst your own special groups - as my grandson would say 'this leverage by language is old.'

GGray

Dik Coates from Winnipeg, Canada writes: 20 years ago, my 6 year old son told my sister, 20 years his senior, that she was wrong for interupting our discussion. Because I had taught him that he should correct 'wrongs', I had to defend his actions and still don't regret it.

The federal government is wrong, and should be corrected! This will point out to the world that Canada doesn't speak with one voice and that there are people within the country that know what is right.


evelyn robinson from Canada writes: Glenn Hawley; that is a dumb excuse. Even if we cannot meet all the goals; let's at least try. Time for the governments to go after the industrial polluter rather than nit picking at consuimers. Even if it were not possible to slow down global warming; we need to preserve a breathable atmosphere.

B Fulsom from Menlo Park, United States writes: Sure Quebec wants to follow Kyoto...they just need the rest of the country to give them $350 million. And while we're at it, 45 seconds of microphone time at an international conference so they can embarass Canada by ripping on how irresponsible the federal government is and how the world would be a better place if they were on their own. In french, no less. Right. Not sure I care much for the leadership of Ms. Ambrose, but I'll applaud any government that plays hardball with Quebec separatists.

sean smith from Georgetown, Canada writes: Well said #32. It's amazing how quickly people forgot Harper's promise for a voice for Quebec at international events. This is just another in a long list of broken promises from these neo-clowns.


Douglas MacDONALD from edmontonedmonton, Canada writes: to post #4 you must have dozed off as the conservatives have already given quebec a voice at international affairs once the door is opened it cannot be closed.

John McCaffery from Warragul, Australia writes: Knock, knock - anybody home? What's that noise I here? Not another domestic argument. I suggest you see a good marriage councilor before it starts to get physical - counseling might help you put this turmoil behind you - life is too short and you are missing out on so many opportunities by dwelling endlessly on this navel-gazing.

Mark my words, the sweat from hardworking brows and the wealth from the land will not subsidize this folly forever.

It saddens me to think that the household of Canada could soon be classified as dysfunctional.


A B from Muskoka from Canada writes: Well said number 32. Harper if anyone wishes to remember was so happy to act like a good uncle and do what he needed to gain a majority. He now should accept that it is he who seem to have mislead the Quebec position on international affairs...


Jan Johnstone from Kincardine, Canada writes: Talk about international embarassment on the international stage, where one poster said it all with, 'How can you have the Minister of the Environment in Canada who won't even utter the words 'Global Warming' or 'Climate Change' address an international forum on Global Warming and Climate Change?' That said, flatearthers beware, there is change afoot going on next door and the leader of the flatearth society - Bush - is a lame duck. Considering the 'new govt' is just an MINORITY - it represents only a small proportion of Canada, and shrinking by the minute, as their clean air act is a no go. I wish the other provinces would 'standup for Canada' and get on this bandwagon: let the international community know that we support our international agreement on Kyoto.


Rene Tanaja from Vancouver, Canada writes: Bravo Quebec! True, that this isn't fair to the other provinces (although that is easily fixed), and it's true that Ottawa is the country's de facto voice, but Harper DID promise a more independent voice for Quebec in his election promises, which bought him the Quebequois votes, so why is he backing out of his promise when it in inconvenient for him? Besides, all that Quebec wants to say is the truth anyway. Multiple (and I must emphasize this part) independent studies (as demonstrated by a few willing countries) have found that Kyoto IS realistic and achievable. It's not the ultimate solution, but it is a fair start to what is currently the world's most serious problem (terrorism is child's play compared to what your children and greandchildren will have to put up with, environmentally speaking). The only thing missing is the willingness to put effort into it, and the willingness of big business to stop stuffing its already fat wallets for a moment now in order to fix things so they can stuff it even faster in the future after their operations are more efficient, and people are happier. As I see it, it's a 'short attention span' problem: They don't want to wait to have their hands on their money, even with the promise of even more later. Quebec may have its quirks, but the environment is one thing that they usually have been far ahead of the rest of the country (and most of the world) about in terms of competence.


Michael *** from London, UK, Canada writes: Reading these comments - all of you people are completely MAD!! Except #32, 33, and 35. If you guys can get out of your colonial holes in the sand, stop inter-fighting, and contribute vely in the world, then external people like myself, when we read these things, wouldn't feel that its a place filled of self-absorbed, bubble thinking people. The issues faces us needs a global solution - and CANADA isn't helping the situation by always focusing on its ETERNAL arguement of what is a province and what is a country.

The fact of the matter is that there are many instances where STATES / PROVINCES / CITIES, etc., such as California, HOPEFULLY Quebec, and cities such as London, has gone it alone, with AID from their higher governments for funding. Because KYOTO can be acheived within their area. The reality is that if Mr. Harper is saying that KYOTO can't be acheived in CANADA - he is blantantly LYING - since there are some areas that it clearly CAN. And to ignore that fact of life - will result in more segregation of ideas, and will have a -ve result on the 'effectiveness' we are all looking for. To turn the environment into a forum for 'provincial / federal' bashing is a clear sign of how sad you people are!

Get over it! Find a way to represent and support the varying capabilities of the country - and make a ve contribution for a change. Stop thinking so 'BLACK AND WHITE!'. Mike, London, UK.


Ed Doerksen from Simcoe, Canada writes: Quebec has enjoyed an independant voice on the international scene for far too long. Yes Quebec is different, but it is also part of the Country of Canada. The Liberals have always given in to Quebec. One just needs to look at all the Liberal Government Caucuses to see that members from Quebec have dominated every minister, held the majority of political power positions. Even in Mulroney's cabinet, Quebec held the majority of positions.

It's time that Canada spoke with one voice in the international community, and if Quebec and others don't like it - tough. Deal with it.


A Canadian from Canada writes: Many posters have indicated that Quebec has lots of hydro generated energy. Despite this fact, the province is demanding $328-million from Ottawa to implement its climate-change program. Once again, Quebec wants the rest of the country to pay for it. Also, if it is going to cost so much just for Quebec, can you imagine the cost for the rest of the country. Kyoto is a bad idea that needs to go away.


David Simon from Canada writes: Flying by plane to address a global warming summit? A little contradictory, no? Hasn't anyone heard of teleconferencing?

Robert G from Gatineau, Canada writes: Everytime the Globe & Mail runs a story about Quebec it gets really ugly around here. It's depressing. Is there ONE canadian out there who actually appreciate the fact that Canada is diverse and has a francophone minority? I'm starting to doubt it. This time it's Quebec whining about the federal government. Next week it will be Alberta about something else. This kind of whining is a national hobby and not specific to Quebec. The environment is one area where I don't mind seeing the provinces expressing their viewpoint... Because the whole world considers that Harper and Ambrose are incompetent in this matter. Only a blindsided neo-con for life would actually try to defend them. Hubert Reeves reminded us yesterday that we need to act quickly. Quebec can do more, as well as the rest of Canada.


Carey Toane from Helsinki, Finland writes: Good point, David Simon. Jetting around does as much damage as good.

55, I'm sure you would like global warming and other genuine concerns like how to make Canada work with Quebec to 'just go away' too, but that's not the reality. How about thinking constructively to find a solution instead of scapegoating Quebec?

I think the idea of 'speaking with one voice' suggests that the government would first take the opinions of its citizens, which includes Quebec, to the obvious displeasure of some commenting here. This government has shown that it's not interested in listening to anybody, so it's never in danger of learning anything. Congrats on making a fool of Canada on the world stage, BTW, in cancelling the trip to the EU Summit in Helsinki! Now that the Democrats are in power in the US, our pigheaded Conservative government is going to find this increasing hot planet rather cold and lonely...


David Richinger from Switzerland writes: The article says: '...the Opposition accused Mr. Harper of defending a policy that abandons Canada's role as world leader on the environment.'
This is both sad and laughable. 'Canada's role as a world leader' in energy consumption is more like it. Canadian domestic publications CONSISTENTLY oversell our country's virtue (Maclean's is the most over-the-top cheerleader). None of the many countries I've lived in - including China - see Canada as having anything to be proud of environmentally speaking. As so often is the case (taxes, crime, healthcare, education, etc.) we compare ourselves only with the US and pat ourselves on the back for being so wonderful. It's like Medusa standing next to Frankenstein's monster and congratulating herself on her beauty. I don't know what's worse: our poor performance or our self-satisfied delusions about the poor performance. (Reminds me of our grade-schoolers).


R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes: In the lead up to the next Quebec Provincial election, Charest must appeal to the so-called 'soft' nationalists to remain in power-if not, the PQ will win and we all know what that will do...............He is the most federal politician Quebec has had in memory! In the 1995 referendum, it was his passionate speaches and involvement that saved this country while Chretien and the federal Liberals were sleeping! This is just political posturing-in a week, no one will remember! For the negative Quebec posters here, please remember that there are still at least 60% plus who would vote AGAINST any clear question of separation! C L E A R I state!!

Paul B from Vancouver, Canada writes: #23, we don't do that because we are nice people. Quebec is fine, but separatists are nuts.


Guy Olivier from Orlando, United States writes: Quebec was promised a stronger voice when Harper was running. I've always thought that Quebec should be a province of Canada and nothing more and the thought of a possible separation from Canada leaves me wondering how Quebec would survive. That said, in the next elections the conservatives should not be surprised by the lack of support coming in from Quebec.

Randy Canuckistan from Canada writes: I wonder if Quebec will ever make good on it's blackmail threat to actually go on its own and leave the rest of us alone.

François Papineau from Montreal, Canada writes: All these comments are so depressing. First Ontario already for than 500 millions for its environment plan. The problem is they don't have any. Every environmentalist said that the Quebec ones is the best in Canada and this government said no to Quebec. One voice? which one? the one of the Albertans petro-dollars? You can speak with one voice when and only when theer is consensus. In Canada (not just in Quebec), al lot of people said the the federal government is wrong. What about them?

And give me a break about Chirchill. This as been done years ago when no one wanted to invest in this project. Hydro-Quebec took a risk and wins a lot. The newfoundland government was not full of idiots. They knew what they signed.

As for the treatment of our English minority, ask French Canadians outside Quebec if they wouild like to be treated the same way than the English Canadians in Quebec: be able to go to school in your language from elementary to university. To be able to have a job without speaking the language of the majority where you live (don't said it's not true, I work with 2 of them). To enter a roome fills with 10 English speakers and suddenly they began to speak French because you are there. To be able to be serve in your own language anywhere even at the provincial governement level. I tried that in Ontario and gave up.


nigel martin from montreal, Canada writes: 1. Charest is as federalist as they come; 2. the environment is a provincial jurisdiction 3: the issue of global warming is not going to be solved at the nation-state level, it can only be solved by a global governance mechanism, one which is open to the views and inputs of all citizens 3. the Canadian federal positon on the environment is an embarassment to all Canadians

Peter Walker from Calgary, Canada writes: Just remember how Canada's commitment to Kyoto was made. A former Prime Minister said that we will adhere to a fictional number, which we as a growing Country had no chance of ever meeting, Just to put one over on the rest of the World.

Well, That former Prime Minister is no more, and no longer has a say in matters that matter. Thank Goodness!!

Quebec wants all the benefits of Canadian taxes and federal payments without recognizing that all this separation talk, referendums and nation calling have damaged Canada's Economy beyond repair.

To hell with them and their ideas. They can't separate etc. because too many "Quebecers" are not francophones, they are natives and immigrants. Perhaps we should let them have Nationhood after all, and let them supervise the defence of the Northwest Passage. Davis Inlet would be a good place for their Capital City, and they can speak about their Kyoto targets from there!!

[Delenda]

La suite...

Rick O'Regan from Canada writes: Fourty five seconds to outline their plan. Boy, that must be quite a plan.


John G from Whitby, Canada writes: To post #18.... well said. And to many others, mean spirited comments about another part of the country is divisive and unneccessary. Lets not become so American in that those of one political persuasion is always attacking those of another. Nothing is gained. "Gotcha" is for juveniles.


Shawn Francis from Edmonton, Canada writes: John F. from Edmonton, Canada writes: "How would you like it if Albertans went to a Francophonie meeting..." Were you aware that Albertans already do attend Francophonie meetings? They're called Franco-Albertans--or did you know there were French-speaking Albertans? Probably not. As usual, more of the same bs assumptions. Some people on this forum seem to think they can throw around big phrases like "Quebec's human rights record" and not be called out on it.

We're not talking about people being jailed for months without trial, deported to countries where they'll be tortured, or murdered by death squads. Saying things like "Quebec has a bad human rights record for anglos" is the kind of thing that seems to gain credibility by sheer repetition and not by anything ressembling fact. Clearly, you have some sort of bias against Quebec or French Canadians in general. Maybe some shred of it is even based on something tangible, but as a fellow Albertan, I'm guessing there's not much else to it. Just the same typical bs. the same ignorant crap that gives Alberta a bad name. Try getting an idea at some point. It doesn't even have to be a good idea. Or better yet, visit Quebec. Hell, if you're a typical Albertan, just try even to visit something east of Saskatchewan.


A Fraser from Canada writes: Harper promised during the election campaign that Quebeckers would have an independent voice at these summits. This is yet another broken promise laid bare from this broken rudderless government.


ben alles from London, UK, Canada writes: It's very wrong to be different. If anyone person or entire provence should ever speak differently, act differently, or express any opinion outside mine, then I should get very defensive and even a bit insulting. That will prove that it is wrong to believe something would be good even if it is different and that will make the different person or provence learn from their mistake of being different and make them want to be like everyone else, not because they want to be but because it is Right. It would be quite different to point out that Canada feels quite guilty about being a heavier per capita CO2 emitter than that different country to the south. SO I wouldn't say that.


Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: In response to comment # 19: Please don't let Mr. Klein speak, at an international forum, about anything. Honourable, he's not.


gaetan diotte from Ottawa, Canada writes: As a federalist Quebecer, I am starting to believe that Quebec would be much better off without the RoC. Quebec, since the Quiet Revolution, has consistently been ahead of the RoC on social and environmental issues.
It seems to me that the RoC is aligning itself more and more to a U.S. world view that is inconsistent with the views of most Quebecers. This Conservative gov't has absolutely no clue when it comes to the environmental opinions of Quebecers, let alone the social opinions. Perhaps the Bloc will begin to place candidates outside of the province, as an alternative to the Amer-Can ideology of the Conservative party.


Adam B from Toronto, Canada writes: If Quebec has all the answers to global warming then let them pay for it themselves instead of trying to extort it from the rest of Canada. But then again, extorting and blackmailing The Federal Government of Canada (and therfore the taxpayer) is the national pastime of Quebec.

Mike Conway from London, United Kingdom writes: It is unfortunate to see people like #3 react without thinking. I am from Toronto and speak almost no French. But to feel that losing such a different and interesting part of Canada without putting up a fight really embarrasses me as a Canadian.

On the actual topic as hand, Quebec should have a say towards our National stance but not in the international forum. I suggest Quebec fight tooth and nail within Canada to get their point heard, but once a national decision has been made, right or wrong, we act as one nation. There are no second voices for Canada.

In business, you can have very heated conference room debates but at the end of the meeting you leave as one no matter what.
Posted 10/11/06 at 8:05 AM EST | Link to Comment
Steve ST Pierre from St. John's, Canada writes: Shocking to see how little Canadians know about Canadian federalism. Quebec isn't trying to "hijack" Canada's international profile. Canada doesn't speak with just "one voice". To all those brave Canadians willing to go it without Quebec, good luck. I hope realizing how little Canada means to the world now, and how insignificant it will be to the world without Quebec, won't lessen your delusions of grandeur. There should be a mandatory educational attainment requirement before posting on this forum. That would greatly reduce the number of ignorant posts.


Kim Huynh from Montreal, Canada writes: The sad reality about Tokyo is that while many countries try to do something about it while more than half of the world, especially the emerging economic powers like China and India would not care, or can not afford to care anyway. Of course we should be in search for better technologies to tackle this problem but to set a target but never achieve is no better. If Quebec has the "winning condition" to deal with this issue, the Feds should quietly provide the help. Meantime, when Canada goes to the international forum to speak of the issue, Quebec should not voice the opposed view in front of the rest of the world. We can deal with this back home as a domestic matter. And that will make Canada a proud nation. The concept of nations within a nation will never work. And Canada should not be another "Soviet Union".


grover station from Hamilton, Canada writes: Quebec I admire your tenacity and concern for the environment, but wanting to speak independently of Ottawa is not right. Ottawa you need to listen to Quebec about this issue.


Steve ST Pierre from St. John's, Canada writes: From reading these posts, I would venture to say that Americans know more about Canadian history than do most Canadians. These posts make quite a statement for a revamping of Canadian public schools. All that is said here is nonsense.

Knee-jerk reactions to nuanced federal issues should not be posted. Wake up screeners! Out of the 65 posts, there may be 10 with a legitimate argument one way or the other.

To all those willing to throw out Quebec; don't be mad simply because you don't speak French. Go back to school and help yourself out.


Ian in Ottawa from Canuckistan, Canada writes: When has listening to Quebec EVER been a good thing?


C. O. from Toronto, Canada writes: Here's an intersting fact. Quebec is all for emission controls because the majority of it's energy is generated from the massive hydro electric dams they built. They can be all smug about they're interest in preserving the air but many would argue they wrought the most enviromental damage to their province with all those dams; flooding huge areas, sinking forests and displancing natives.


Joe Mead from Winnipeg, Canada writes: ... Quebec sounds just like North Korea. North Korea demands this, North Korea demands that. Quebec demands this, Quebec demand that. If Quebec ever separated, I pity the poor Quebec sheep that follow its narcissistic leadership to their future poverty stricken lifestyles as their poor leadership drives their economy into the ground.


Progressive Canadian from Canada writes: It seems Canada does speak with one voice: Stephen Harper's, God forbid any of the other 32 million of us should be allowed to have our say on how our country is run. On this issue, Stephen Harper does not speak for me and although I do not live there, it seems that Quebec does. I have a very funny feeling I am not alone. Like it or not, there is no "one" voice.


P Martin from St. John's, Canada writes: Canada should be showing a unified front at this conference. Quebec, however much I back the Kyoto accord, should NOT be part of this summit. It is bad enough that they are saying they can meet this target from the stolen energy from Upper Churchill in Labrador.

No other province would never have been forced into this deal. The federal government refused to use its constitutional powers to force Quebec to allow a power corridor through its province. There is a power corridor running from Alberta's Natural gas fields across three provinces Sask, Manitoba and Ontario, expropriated by the Feds to benefit Alberta and Ontario. But the federal government did not want to aggravate the threat of Quebec separation.


Concerned About Canada from Napanee, Canada writes: Ah, poor ole Quebec not being allowed to play in the International sandbox - cry me a bloody river!!!!!

Etienne Forest from Tsukuba, Japan writes: We should be careful when dealing with area of provincial jurisdiction. Americans do that all the time: sign a treaty on the right of foreign people arrested by the police and then have the state of Texas say up your arse. Japan got wise on drivers licence and sought the approval of Canada's 10 provinces before having an exchange program for residents. (None with the USA!)

Same with environment: we should have a coherent voice. Fact is we don't and everyone with a brain knows that.

As for posts on Alberta bad mouthing Quebec's treatment of the Anglos: that is rich. I just signed 5 countracts in Montreal all written in English. Try to do that in Calgary.
Anyway besides the point: language and education are also in the end a provincial matter.

Robert Rose from Mont-Royal, Canada writes: Speak with one voice? Sure. The whole opposition, for a majority of Canadians, will then "take to the street" and make it known to the world what the majority does think, in this country, on Kyoto and on the environment. No need to abide by the views any tiny minority government wants to impose on the population. And this is just the beginning. If need be, the game will be played outside parliament. That is what freedom of expression is all about and the people is the sovereign, i.e. the source of legitimity for those Ambroses. The Harper government's attitude is a very good way to discredit itself in the eyes of the population. I predict the future will tell in no uncertain terms, sooner than expected, how so very successful that lot has been at it.


Midtown Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: Don Cherry is right, they are all a bunch of whiners. Quebec's voice can be heard when they meet and reach consensus with the rest of Canada.


Matt H from Utopia, Canada writes: What type of headline is this? Quebec is miffed? Since when is Quebec a person with feelings? Here's what the headline should have read: petty bureaucrats with self-serving agenda upset that the gravy train may be coming to a stop. Or, Quebec politicos work angle to save their phoney-baloney jobs.

Now, that's a paper that I would like to read. Who runs the G&M, Rene Levesque?


W E from Canada writes: I think the rest of Canada should get to vote on whether or not we want to keep Quebec around anyway.

As for the Quebec's plan to reduce GHGs by 2012, I agree that as a country we should have some accountability for our emissions, but:

"Quebec has tabled its own plan, which, unlike Ottawa's, embraces the Kyoto targets set for 2012. The province is demanding $328-million from Ottawa to implement its climate-change program."

It's easy to be grandiose when you don't have to foot the bill.


David Ostrosser from Canada writes: In response to comments #20 and #34, don't worry about us English Quebecers. We do fine here and the ones that complain would probably move to China and complain about all the Chinese. Quebec offers English school systems, hospitals and universities and all the English media one could wish for. Most Anglophones respect the need to put up buttresses against the steamroller of English and if they didn't like Quebec they wouldn't choose to live here. This forum is so full of anti-Quebec vitriol it's not even funny. Why is it the same people that think Quebec is so useless that don't want it to leave Canada? Everytime a topic with Quebec comes up, they have to spew their bile.


jiri z from Canada writes: Let's kick Quebec out of Canada! (won't come to that, of course because all the cheap politicos will switch their tune the moment they think we are serious)


Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: Quebec Premiers (Lib and PQ alike) have, too often in the past, acted as if Quebec is a sovereign nation and showed a lack of respect for federalist powers. It's about time we had a government that put Quebec in its place.

Timothy Nessus from Somewhere..., Canada writes: Ohh... give me a break... why is that EVERY oportunity for an international forum needs to be hijaked for political use.... Uffff.... how depressing..


Brandan Matchett from halifax, Canada writes: So Quebec can do it, if the rest of Canada pays for it. Great plan. And if the rest of Canada does not go along with it you'll do what? Complain? Seperate? Enough. Think Nike and "Just do it". Whatever it is. 328 million dollars? So you get that from Alberta? Then you critisize Alberta for not meeting kyoto? Quebec we see you for what you are. And this is not bad publicity for the conservatives. They say no, I say finally.


JM Work from Canada writes: Two issue: 1) Quebec is a province in Canada. If it wants its own voice, then go ahead and form your own nation. Is Canada supposed to give all provinces voices on international issues? This would lead to disaster. 2) Quebec wants to participate in Kyoto but they know they wont pay for it. There hand is already out and waiting for hundreds of millions of dollars so that they can participate. Im sure Alberta would love to join Kyoto too if Quebec was willing to foot the bill.

Frenchspeaking Frenchname from Toronto, Canada writes: No. 34: English Quebeckers are laughing at you.


admore inches from Toronto, Canada writes: #53, I respect your post, but this isn't just the same as a California wanting to represent themselves at a conference. California has never said, hey US, thanks, but we want to be our own country and we are going to seperate. The PM should be consulting with Quebec, just like he should consult with other provinces for their input and provide a Canadain - wide solution to this problem. The real problemn is that some provinces feel that global warming is a threat, and some don't, or that their major industries don't.

Dave Medich from Windsor, Canada writes: I think they should send Mr. Dithers as Canada's representative so he can flail away about how bad the U.S. is and all the other countries will nod approvingly. He is the perfect guy as our preacher in the "Cult of Kyoto".

Dan Van Gageldonk from Toronto, Canada writes: I thought that this whole Kyoto thing was a dead issue for all the parties when the old Liberal environment minister admitted they wouldn't even come close to meeting their Kyoto targets? Now its an issue that the conservatives should be ashamed about for admitting that we won't meet our Kyoto targets? What a deranged politcal world we live in when people ignore facts and rely more on emotionally charged diatribes that would have us striving for an unattainable utopian ideal. Quebec is showing its disdain for the other provinces in this country once again. Who cares if they can meet their Kyoto commitment. The only reason they can is because of their rivers and because their manufacturing sector has been decimated thanks to the anti-business environment in Quebec. I would love to see their reaction if Canada did implement the accord, the national economy tanks, less money for Quebec from the feds due to this, all of a sudden they might regret their pomous shameful stance.

patrick eddie from Canada writes: Reading some of these comments is very depressing! First of all, Quebec's environmental plan is excellent and probably represents what canadians think on the subject better than the conservative's denial of the problem!

Regarding the treatment of the english minority in Quebec, I can say that the anglophones in Quebec are very well treated, much better than the francophones in the rest of Canada!

Phil Daoust from Ottawa-Gatineau, Canada writes: To #46, I live in Quebec and pay taxes to the Federal government. I don't want the money from the "rest of Canada" as you say, I just my OWN money back so that we can do something about the environment. It's not something we making up, that money was promised to us, albeit by the previous government.

I have two young kids and I care about their future. Rona's plan in no way shape or form addresses any of my concerns. In fact, all it's doing is protecting Alberta long enough (until 2050) until they run out of oil and stop polluting.

Pretty Much from Toronto, Canada writes: #57- Quebec is unique in its culture and language NOT in its enviroment. I love Quebec and its people. But I am PERSONALLY offended that they have to go their own separate way and embarass the country like this!
As much as I hate Harper with a burning passion, I am with Rona on this one. We speak with ONE voice! c'est tout!

Mike Z from Saskatoon, Canada writes: 1. PM Harper is exactly right. Quebec is a province, while Canada is a country. Quebec has no more right to a voice at a a conference of countries than I do as a private citizen. Fools and their delusions of grandeur.
2. I love how people complain that the Conservatives don't care about the environment. Why is that? Because the Conservatives don't talk big but do absolutely nothing? If that's what you prefer by all means vote Liberal, but as for me and my household, we will support the party that has a realistic plan for improvement. The NDP talk big but are a joke that would bankrupt the country if given the chance. The Liberals are worse than a joke -- they would steal our money but not even give us the benefit of any improvements. Whether you like the Conservatives or not they are the best of the bunch in Ottawa.
3. It must be convenient to automatically assume that if you don't like the Federal Government position than neither does the general population. I would like to see a series of polls showing consistent support for Kyoto. Oh, wait a minute – there isn’t any. Canadians may support a poorly worded question like “Should Canada reduce pollution?”, but far fewer support a question like “Should Canadians pay more tax and suffer a recession to reduce pollution?”. Make no mistake about it, that is what we would face in order to even come close to achieving the Kyoto targets that had been neglected by the Liberals for so long.
Good for PM Harper for taking a principled and decisive stand against the idiotic bullies in the Quebec Separatist camp. Quebec should finally wake up and stop letting these fools represent them.

alan gilchrist from Toronto, Canada writes: On the one hand we have mounting evidence of the harm we continue to cause to the planet. On the other we have politics. Quebec politicians are and always have been cause for disappointment and frustration, that is not new. What is new is the idea that they have, for whatever reason, joined the fray in support of working to limit the environmental damage currently indulged by "civilized" nations. Who would have thought it could happen![/i]

[bobi]

Cette fois, Kyoto sert de prétexte pour cracher sur le Québec.

When they're not busy spitting on Mother Earth, they spit on Québec...

[Delenda]

Et ça crache fort, quand il s'agit du Québec........

A. K from former montrealer, United States writes: There was a similar situation here in the US several months ago. California disagreed with the federal goverment's restrictions on stem cell research. So the state put it to a vote and is now providing $3 billion of its own money to fund its own research. I don't have a problem with Quebec disagreeing with Ottawa. But if you can't afford to pay for it, then shut it.

Joe Canadian from Canada writes: Does Quebec really think that their massive hydro dams are environmentally friendly and that the Nation of Canada should send them money for emision credits? Canada has allot of river valleys left. Anyone else think we should dam them all to produce green energy? The potential is huge. We could be like China and force all the people to move for the good of the NATION. Go Quebec Go!

peterborough pete from peterborough, Canada writes: Of course Harper and Ambrose speak for the Alberta oil companies and not Canada. Harper and Ambrose are truly embarrassments. I don't know how they can look anyone in the eye and say with any honesty that they have a plan to curb climate change. Kyoto is a global plan to address global concerns and going it alone as Harper wants to and putting any action off for 50 years, frankly is no plan at all. If I were Ambrose, I'd find a way not to make the trip and save any further embarrassment.

Popcorn & Beer from Dartmouth, Canada writes: Since the BQ does not have the best interests of Canada in their agenda, why would anyone ever seek/consider their input on anything concerning Canada?


A Canuck from Ottawa, Canada writes: In the early 90's, I personaly saw the damage and the "bribing" the Québec Délégations did on the world stage. Most of us are unaware that the province of Québec have Délégations(pseudo embassies) in most international cities such as Paris, Brussels, New York, Tokyo and depending who is in charge in Quebec City, their mission is to embarass Canada or at the very best, put Québec's needs and policies ahead of Canada's. The Liberal government did a very poor job with Kyoto and now, the only way Canada can be "allowed" to stay in this flawed Protocol is by paying a HUGE penalty with our tax money and directed this money towards other nations!!!Harper is now stuck with this dilemna, explain why we must do things on our own or pass the buck to the Liberals who will probably win the next election with the help of the left media and Toronto, Vancouver and to a smaller extend Montreal. My fellow Canadians, we currently have an honest government, working for its citizens, not a government stealing money for themselves and filling our daily lives with socialist BS.

Pete Kauchak from Cascadia, Canada writes: Quebec can complain all they want. Their entire power grid is from hydro electric power and it does not create emissions. It's very easy for them to support Kyoto because they don't have to DO ANYTHING! Other provinces are not so lucky and have coal fired plants to produce energy. It will take time to replace those. More than the 5 years the Kyoto target deadline allows. This is a difficult situation for the Conservative government to be in. They don't want to shutdown the oil sands which would kill the Western Canadian economy nor do they want to send billions abroad to buy carbon credits. How does sending billions abroad help the fledging Canadian green industry? How do we catch up to the rest of the world? Inevitably to stay in Kyoto Canadians taxes will have to go up significantly and I'm not sure that would be popular either. I would rather walk away from Kyoto and have a serious domestic plan which is realistic and achievable and not idealistic and naive. The opposition parties can set all the targets they want in their respective plans but they will have to provide proof that they can be reached. It is easy to be in opposition when you don't have to put anything concrete on the table and have it scrutinized.


kevin joncas from Calgary, Canada writes: Kyoto is about CO2. Period. Canada is the worlds largest carbon sink. As a result this country removes MORE THAN 100 TIMES as much CO2 as it emits. Any other so called facts are simply political rhetoric and political agendas.

J Nigh from Toronto, Canada writes: To those of you saying that the Conservative gov't promised greater say to Quebec in international measures, you seem to have read only one part of the promise- it was specifically to allow Quebec greater representation in UNESCO which is a cultural organisation. That was the beginning & the end of greater international representation, and this situation has nothing to do with that pledge. The proposed action by the federalist provincial gov't in Quebec would likely be threatened regardless of that promise because this is just a political move to extract financing from the federal gov't (and likely it's going to be an effective move, too). At the end of the day, the Harper gov't needs the Charest gov't's ground organisation in Quebec in order to get whatever vote they have there out to the polls, and this dependency on the Quebec Liberals is going to require some of their demands being met. In turn, that helps Charest say federalism works. Look for some announcements on spending by the federal gov't prior to the Quebec elections.


Kevin Jackson from Belleville, writes: It is correct that a province should NOT speak on an international level, that is the function of the federal government. I look at this story a different way though, it shows that Harper will not swing Quebec to gain a majority - Kyoto is one of three major issues that the Conservatives have perception issues with in Quebec - Kyoto, Guns and Israel / Lebanon. If Quebec doesn't like the international stand on Kyoto, why then did the Bloc support the conservatives when they knew the view on Kyoto? If Quebec doesn't like the international stance the federal government is taking on climate change, then the people of Quebec should go to their MPs and demand that the government be brought down in a non-confidence vote. Which is something I personally hope they do. By voting Conservative in Quebec, and voting Bloc which supported the government, the people of Quebec gave Harper a mandate on a platform that everyone knew would include the opting out of Kyoto. If they feel they made a mistake voting how they did, better get around to changing it fast.

Frenchspeaking Frenchname from Toronto, Canada writes: While many posters here today are once again too pleased to declare how much they hold Quebec in the uttermost contempt, they are actually demonstrating how any and all excuses are good, especially Quebec, to carefully dodge the real issue: how much they care about the environment IF AT ALL. Just keep burying your heads in your tar sands and guzzle up!

Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: #73 - it may be that Quebec is "ahead" of the ROC on environmental and social policies, they are also dead last on being able to pay for these over the top programs. Quebec can have all the "progressive" policies it wants, just don't let the rest of us pay for it. Even in Alberta, there's no way we could afford the cradle-to-grave programs that Quebec demands. Just a couple of weeks ago it was determined that Quebecers are the least productive in Canada. Maybe if Quebec contributed to the GNP instead of taking from it, the ROC wouldn't be so annoyed. It's shameful that a jurisdiction the size of Quebec is unable or unwilling to pull up its collective bootstraps and became more efficient. The threat of separation won't work next time because many of us agree with Quebec going its own way.

Danny Albers from North Bay, ON, Canada writes: Lets give Quebec their 45 seconds. Then the USA can also give Texas, California and New York 45 seconds. And every other country with regional differences can give those regions 45 seconds. And while we are at it, lets give every other province in Canada their 45 seconds to make things equal. Then every other Country can do likewise. Oh, lets not forget Toronto might have something to say on the matter. Lets give Toronto 45 seconds. And Victoria, and Montreal, and St. Johns. And all those other countries can do likewise. East York in Toronto may feel differently then Brampton, so lets give each of them 45 seconds, and so on, and so on I hope my explanation as to why we have national representation was simple enough for the Quebec government to understand.

David Gehring from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada writes: More whining from Quebec. Besides, I don't think anyone outside of Canada cares what the Quebec government has to say.

Rick McNaulty from Calgary, Canada writes: NEWSFLASH - Quebec you are a province and the week link at that.

K WS from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Instead of not meeting Kyoto across Canada, which has different energy circumstances based on your geographic location, why can't the Federal Government start to meet it in places where it can work. We are a vast expanse of land. In areas where it is feasible to implement Kyoto, then lets implement Kyoto. In areas where it will be harder to meet, lets look at alternatives that can be put into place. In areas, where industry doesn't want to look into measures, lets ask them forcefully to then put a good portion of their profits into research to make their respective industries cleaner. At least this way, we can stay on course to meeting Kyoto, at least in some geographic areas of our country, which would be bigger than other countries entirely, work on implementing Kyoto and at the same time inform industry that yes, a good portion of your profits should go into research so you too can reach Kyoto. I think if Kyoto can be met in Quebec, then it should be. That would be a great start for Canada. Otherwise, we are just sitting on our @** twiddling our thumbs while the polar bears are drowning.


Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: I have an INGENIOUS idea! Rather than whine, complain, and act with complete disdain for your fellow citizens, Quebecers should go ahead, implement Kyoto, show us how easy it can be,a nd we can all follow! Be a LEADER for once. Quebec has this "independent" spirit and talks about how it is so "distinct" from the rest of Canada, but then almost asks permission from the Federal government to go ahead and implement Kyoto, in the form of asking for a couple hundred million dollars? The Quebec government is essentially asking for $50 per Quebecer to implement Kyoto, this is NOT a significant amount of money. If it really was serious about Kyoto and didn't just want to use this issue to highlight its "distinctiveness", it could go ahead and do this tommorow. It doesn't need any federal grant to do Kyoto, in fact it already has huge advantages because of all the hydro.

Mark P from Saint John, NB, Canada writes: #33-- great post

Normally, I do not side with Quebec, for I agree the constant rhetoric is tiring--but this time I think they have a point.... I think it's great that Quebec is standing up for a commitment that we made as a COUNTRY. In fact, I'm ashamed of the way the feds are acting in this matter.

The amount of money Quebec has requested to implement Kyoto is not that large, considering what war costs, and the size of the federal surplus. PLUS, some of that funding would be coming from Quebec tax-payers, and it would directly injected right back into the economy.

They are making an effort to maintain the international value of Canada's word, and trying to get Ottawa to do the same (or at least pull their heads out of the sand.)

T. Riley from Salmon Arm, Canada writes: It is ironic that Quebec is so ready to embarrass the rest of the country at an international environment forum, while at the same time taking as much "dirty" cash as possible from the feds. Much of the money Ottawa enjoys and passes on to Quebec in equalization and bribes can be traced back to the oil and gas industry.

D Moss from Toronto, Canada writes: It's nice to see Quebec ignored for once on the Federal level. I don't see any other provinces wishing to present their case - that's why the Federal government is there! It's all moot however, since next week they will be whining about something else - ('nation' status, 'fiscal imblance') who knows, and who cares. Not me...

John L. Murlowe from Isla de Vancouver y Quadra, Canada writes: Quebec once again distinguishes itself as a distinct... whatever. There is absolutely nothing that prevents Quebec paying for its own plan with its own taxes. It could make a significant start by cutting the emissions of half its polliticians