www.politiquebec.com

[AncientWinds]

I don't get it. Quebecers considers themselves Quebecers. There is no smaller or smallest unit.

You say people living in Quebec should consider themselves quebeckers altough they are in fact, canadians (Canada is a country, Quebec is not) ! That's what I meant

Come on. Don't argue with me on that one. Bill 101 is the most hated bill in Canadian history.

Because the bill is unconstitutional. The canadian constitution says Canada is a bilingual country, bill 101 says that we MUST use french.

I never said that. I said that Anglo-quebeckers will never see themselves as Quebeckers. They are Canadian. Now, what are we supposed to do? Twist their arm?

And a lot (more than 50%) of french quebeckers consider themselves canadian first, as there's english quebeckers considering themselves as quebeckers. By telling that they all not consider themselves quebeckers, YOU consider them as non quebeckers.

Wrong. The yes side won the majority of french quebeckers' votes. Do your math.

Province of Quebec is 85%+ french speaking, if your statement would be true, admitting that the whole 15% of non francophone would vote no, there would be more than 42,5% (current). In fact, there's some anglophones voting yes with a majority voting no, and a majority of francophones voting no. As there's some english speakers voting yes, it means that there's a majority of french speakers voting no.

Do you math

Wrong again. I think you're being stubborn on purpose here. Deep down, you know I'm right. And what I said is that anglo-quebeckers will never consider themselves quebeckers. Can't argue with that.

And what I say is that 50% of french quebeckers consider themselves as canadians first ! Think we're not talking about the same thing here...

Weren't you the one who said you agreed with the provincial laws?

I agree with provincial laws from the moment they are constitutionals.

If they want to live in English, the rest of the North American continent is theirs.

No, there's also 150 million spanish speakers !

Wow, we need JMS here with his figures...Manitoba forbid the French language for over 80 years. Bill 117 in Ontario lasted what, 30 years? That statement couldn't be more stupid and dishonest. It's like comparing an elephant to a mouse.

And what about these bills now ? Is there any bill like that in 2006 ? Stop living in the past. These bills were a big mistake, as the bill 101 is a mistake.

As if you didn't want immigrants to use the Engllish language.

I want immigrants, and canadians, to be free to use the language they want.

Nobody is forced to speak French, because nobody is forcedto emigrate to Quebec. Get it?

And what about english speaking quebeckers ? They don't have the right to use their language ? They should move ?

What are you talking about? Are we denying another culture's right, here? I don't understand. Chinese is not an official language in Quebec. Nor is it an official language anywhere in the ROC even in BC where their population is growing.

And english is an official language in Quebec since Quebec is a canadian province.

But we are in Quebec and we function in French. That is the common language. Just as English is the common language everywhere else in NA. You would never say that non-French North America is denying other cultures, would you?

There's 1 thing missing in your statement : Mexico !

There's 15 million spanish speaker, few million chinese speaking, etc.

Non-French North America is a multicultural place (few million chinese in Canada, about 50 million mexicans in USA).

...and you seem exasperated, or discouraged by that fact...

Absolutly not. I believe everyone have the right to speak and use the language he wants, where he wants. Don't you think people should be free ? You want to be protected as a minority in north america, but you don't want to protect minorities in Quebec ? Come on...

FYI, every effort has been made to assimilate the French fact in Canada. The Acadian deportation. The union in 1840. 1867. French forbidden in Manitoba, etc.

Any arguments from 2006 ? (The union in 1840. 1867. It's been almost 150 years since 1867...)

Quebec may still be francophone so far, but when we look at the figures in the ROC on the assimilation of francophones, it is only a matter of time until they disappear. Now we don't want that to happen in Quebec.

There's a lot of french communities in the ROC, and they are growing faster than english communities. If we look to ROC, you right , it's a matter of time until french speaking canadians outside Quebec disapear.

And one other thing, Mr. Vent Ancien, nobody is forcing you to stay after a yes victory. So my advice is : Call Royal Lepage today.

First, a good translation for my nick name would be vents ancients, plurial. My advice is, Delenda, no body is forcing you to stay in Canada(Province of Quebec) if you're afraid to loose your language after a no victory... there's a country called France your should consider moving to...

[AncientWinds]

Based on what facts ?

Economical facts.

Yeah right. When Quebec stops sending its taxes to Ottawa, for instance.

Quebeckers receive more from Ottawa than what they pay to Ottawa. Remember, the fund transferts between rich and poor provinces...

If Quebec separate, it will receive less, it's a fact. And, things like post services, ambassies, army, etc. cost a lot, more than Quebec will be able to pay without Canada...

[Delenda]

Based on what facts ?

Economical facts.

Yeah right. When Quebec stops sending its taxes to Ottawa, for instance.

Quebeckers receive more from Ottawa than what they pay to Ottawa. Remember, the fund transferts between rich and poor provinces...

If Quebec separate, it will receive less, it's a fact. And, things like post services, ambassies, army, etc. cost a lot, more than Quebec will be able to pay without Canada...

Old myths die hard.

We (sovereigntists) don't believe that Quebec receives more. If that were the case, the ROC would have thrown us out a long time ago. Just because every media in the ROC says so doesn't mean it's right. Propaganda is alive and well in Canada.

Quebec is an asset to Canada. No amount of money was high enough to keep Quebec in Canada, as we've seen with the sponsorship scandal.

[JMS]

Based on what facts ?

Economical facts.

Yeah right. When Quebec stops sending its taxes to Ottawa, for instance.

Quebeckers receive more from Ottawa than what they pay to Ottawa. Remember, the fund transferts between rich and poor provinces...

If Quebec separate, it will receive less, it's a fact. And, things like post services, ambassies, army, etc. cost a lot, more than Quebec will be able to pay without Canada...

We are already paying for 23% of the embassies, army, post, etc. And 23% of those services is fine with me, who needs an embassy in Zimbabwe anyway ??? Only in Canada.

Also if we are responsble for 23% of the debt we are then entitled to 23% of federal holdings from coast to coast, which is also fine with me.

And the savings for the 725$ per annum per québecois received from Ottawa will be offset by the elimination of all the unnecessary duplications between Canada and Québec.

JMS

[AncientWinds]

Based on what facts ?

Economical facts.

Yeah right. When Quebec stops sending its taxes to Ottawa, for instance.

Quebeckers receive more from Ottawa than what they pay to Ottawa. Remember, the fund transferts between rich and poor provinces...

If Quebec separate, it will receive less, it's a fact. And, things like post services, ambassies, army, etc. cost a lot, more than Quebec will be able to pay without Canada...

Old myths die hard.

We (sovereigntists) don't believe that Quebec receives more. If that were the case, the ROC would have thrown us out a long time ago. Just because every media in the ROC says so doesn't mean it's right. Propaganda is alive and well in Canada.

Quebec is an asset to Canada. No amount of money was high enough to keep Quebec in Canada, as we've seen with the sponsorship scandal.

Read the federal budget, you will see : this is not propaganda, this is facts. The only two provinces paying more than they receive is Ontario and Alberta.

[Delenda]

Mr. Vents anciens :

Delenda a écrit:
Come on. Don't argue with me on that one. Bill 101 is the most hated bill in Canadian history.


Because the bill is unconstitutional. The canadian constitution says Canada is a bilingual country, bill 101 says that we MUST use french.

Unconstitutional my eye. Quebec has not signed the Constitution anyway. Canada is a bilingual country as far as federal institutions are concerned. It means that you, as an anglo-quebecker, have the right to service in your language when you deal with federal institutions like Canada Post, the Taxation Centre, the Unemployment office, etc…it doesn’t mean that every clerk in any store anywhere in Quebec MUST greet you in English or serve you in English. Sure you’re free to use English…the problem is if nobody understands you, you won’t get very far.

Delenda a écrit:
I never said that. I said that Anglo-quebeckers will never see themselves as Quebeckers. They are Canadian. Now, what are we supposed to do? Twist their arm?

And a lot (more than 50%) of french quebeckers consider themselves canadian first, as there's english quebeckers considering themselves as quebeckers. By telling that they all not consider themselves quebeckers, YOU consider them as non quebeckers.

Don’t put words into my mouth. I know what I said and haven’t said. The majority of English speakers don’t, have never, and will never consider themselves Quebeckers.

Delenda a écrit:
Wrong. The yes side won the majority of french quebeckers' votes. Do your math.


Province of Quebec is 85%+ french speaking, if your statement would be true, admitting that the whole 15% of non francophone would vote no, there would be more than 42,5% (current). In fact, there's some anglophones voting yes with a majority voting no, and a majority of francophones voting no. As there's some english speakers voting yes, it means that there's a majority of french speakers voting no.

Do you math

O.K., let me put the dots on the i’s.

- 85% of the population is French (more or less)
- 15% is not French
- Almost all the non-French population voted no. This is not difficult to prove. You can refer to the results online.
- The results were 49.4 yes, and 50.6 no, if I remember well.
- To come up with a 49.4% yes, more than 42,5% of the french voters had to vote yes.

And I don’t include the wrongdoing of the federal government, the inscription on the electoral lists of ex-quebeckers that had no intention of coming back, of people having given a non-existent Quebec address and the naturalization of the immigrants at the last minute.

And what I say is that 50% of french quebeckers consider themselves as canadians first ! Think we're not talking about the same thing here...

You're free to say anything you want, but it doesn’t mean you’re right.

I agree with provincial laws from the moment they are constitutionals.

Who says it is unconstitutional? Are you implying that we are criminals? That we should all be thrown in jail?

Delenda a écrit:
Wow, we need JMS here with his figures...Manitoba forbid the French language for over 80 years. Bill 117 in Ontario lasted what, 30 years? That statement couldn't be more stupid and dishonest. It's like comparing an elephant to a mouse.

And what about these bills now ? Is there any bill like that in 2006 ? Stop living in the past. These bills were a big mistake, as the bill 101 is a mistake.

Bill 101 is the best thing that ever happened to Quebec!!!That was long overdue. It will never disappear. Either you accept it or you don’t. It's like when someone you love dies. You cry, you hate the situation but hey, what can you do about it? Swallow your pill and move on.

Delenda a écrit:
As if you didn't want immigrants to use the Engllish language.


I want immigrants, and canadians, to be free to use the language they want.

Hey, don’t take me for an idiot. We need laws to protect French.

Delenda a écrit:
Nobody is forced to speak French, because nobody is forcedto emigrate to Quebec. Get it?


And what about english speaking quebeckers ? They don't have the right to use their language ? They should move ?

Ah Ah! The cat is out of the bag. Your problem is you never accepted the emancipation of Quebeckers. You accuse us of living in the past and yet, you want Quebec to go way back to pre-1960. Because you’re pining for the good ol’ days where the English establishment ruled everything. Tut tut tut. That era of colonialism is over. Stop living in the past.

Delenda a écrit:
What are you talking about? Are we denying another culture's right, here? I don't understand. Chinese is not an official language in Quebec. Nor is it an official language anywhere in the ROC even in BC where their population is growing.


And english is an official language in Quebec since Quebec is a canadian province.

I am sure you can get service in English from the provincial government.. You have hospitals, newspapers, schools, etc. What more do you want? Don't be a spoiled brat.

Delenda a écrit:
But we are in Quebec and we function in French. That is the common language. Just as English is the common language everywhere else in NA. You would never say that non-French North America is denying other cultures, would you?


There's 1 thing missing in your statement : Mexico !

O.K., so what’s the point?

Delenda a écrit:
...and you seem exasperated, or discouraged by that fact...


Absolutly not. I believe everyone have the right to speak and use the language he wants, where he wants. Don't you think people should be free ? You want to be protected as a minority in north america, but you don't want to protect minorities in Quebec ? Come on...

Minorities in Quebec have the same right as the majority. If you’re referring to the anglo minority, sorry but it’s not a minority. English is the main language on the continent.

Delenda a écrit:
FYI, every effort has been made to assimilate the French fact in Canada. The Acadian deportation. The union in 1840. 1867. French forbidden in Manitoba, etc.


Any arguments from 2006 ? (The union in 1840. 1867. It's been almost 150 years since 1867...)

So you refuse to acknowledge what happened in the past?

Delenda a écrit:
Quebec may still be francophone so far, but when we look at the figures in the ROC on the assimilation of francophones, it is only a matter of time until they disappear. Now we don't want that to happen in Quebec.


There's a lot of french communities in the ROC, and they are growing faster than english communities.

I don’t know where you take your information, but my information is a lot less negative.

First, a good translation for my nick name would be vents ancients, plurial. My advice is, Delenda, no body is forcing you to stay in Canada(Province of Quebec) if you're afraid to loose your language after a no victory... there's a country called France your should consider moving to...

What about moving to England if you want to continue to speak English???
Don’t start on this. It’s stupid and doesn’t serve any purpose.

Mr. Vents anciens :



_________________
"No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

[AncientWinds]

Based on what facts ?

Economical facts.

Yeah right. When Quebec stops sending its taxes to Ottawa, for instance.

Quebeckers receive more from Ottawa than what they pay to Ottawa. Remember, the fund transferts between rich and poor provinces...

If Quebec separate, it will receive less, it's a fact. And, things like post services, ambassies, army, etc. cost a lot, more than Quebec will be able to pay without Canada...

We are already paying for 23% of the embassies, army, post, etc. And 23% of those services is fine with me, who needs an embassy in Zimbabwe anyway ??? Only in Canada.

Also if we are responsble for 23% of the debt we are then entitled to 23% of federal holdings from coast to coast, which is also fine with me.

And the savings for the 725$ per annum per québecois received from Ottawa will be offset by the elimination of all the unnecessary duplications between Canada and Québec.

JMS

Yeah, why pay 23% for high quality services when you can pay 100% for less quality services...

[Delenda]

Based on what facts ?

Economical facts.

Yeah right. When Quebec stops sending its taxes to Ottawa, for instance.

Quebeckers receive more from Ottawa than what they pay to Ottawa. Remember, the fund transferts between rich and poor provinces...

If Quebec separate, it will receive less, it's a fact. And, things like post services, ambassies, army, etc. cost a lot, more than Quebec will be able to pay without Canada...

We are already paying for 23% of the embassies, army, post, etc. And 23% of those services is fine with me, who needs an embassy in Zimbabwe anyway ??? Only in Canada.

Also if we are responsble for 23% of the debt we are then entitled to 23% of federal holdings from coast to coast, which is also fine with me.

And the savings for the 725$ per annum per québecois received from Ottawa will be offset by the elimination of all the unnecessary duplications between Canada and Québec.

JMS

Yeah, why pay 23% for high quality services when you can pay 100% for less quality services...

Now that is one racist comment. But at least you are honest.

"Know-how" is not an anglo exclusivity, Mr. Ancientwinds.

[Delenda]

Read the federal budget, you will see : this is not propaganda, this is facts. The only two provinces paying more than they receive is Ontario and Alberta.

Some people swear only by the Bible
Some others by the Coran
and some by the federal budget...

[AncientWinds]

Read the federal budget, you will see : this is not propaganda, this is facts. The only two provinces paying more than they receive is Ontario and Alberta.

Some people swear only by the Bible
Some others by the Coran
and some by the federal budget...

Nice joke !

[AncientWinds]

Now that is one racist comment. But at least you are honest.

"Know-how" is not an anglo exclusivity, Mr. Ancientwinds.

That's not racism, that's reality !

My point is : we're always stronger together ! Why do you think co-op exist ? It allows people to pay less for more. It's the same thing with the federation. But I don't want a centralized federation, I want a decentralized federation. Basicly, I want the same thing separatists wants for Quebec with an associated-sovereingty (maximum responsabilities for Quebec), but for all provinces (maximum responsabilities for all provinces).

[AncientWinds]

Unconstitutional my eye. Quebec has not signed the Constitution anyway. Canada is a bilingual country as far as federal institutions are concerned. It means that you, as an anglo-quebecker, have the right to service in your language when you deal with federal institutions like Canada Post, the Taxation Centre, the Unemployment office, etc…it doesn’t mean that every clerk in any store anywhere in Quebec MUST greet you in English or serve you in English. Sure you’re free to use English…the problem is if nobody understands you, you won’t get very far.

"Canada is a bilingual country as far as federal institutions are concerned."

Absolutely

"it doesn’t mean that every clerk in any store anywhere in Quebec MUST greet you in English or serve you in English."

I agree. I don't have any problem speaking french with french speakers. French is a wonderful language. My point is : english speaking people should be allowed to open english stores in Quebec if they want to.

Don’t put words into my mouth. I know what I said and haven’t said. The majority of English speakers don’t, have never, and will never consider themselves Quebeckers.

A lot of english speaking quebeckers consider themselves as canadian first, then quebecker, like a lot of french speaking quebeckers. My question : who are "real" quebeckers ? Those who consider themselves as quebecker first ? If so, the vast majority of people living in Quebec aren't quebeckers !

The results were 49.4 yes, and 50.6 no, if I remember well.

Stats from 1995. Hum, have you ever noticed than 11 years passed by since 1995 ? Things have changed... and for now the separation is not possible with current vote intentions. But, things still can change...

And I don’t include the wrongdoing of the federal government, the inscription on the electoral lists of ex-quebeckers that had no intention of coming back, of people having given a non-existent Quebec address and the naturalization of the immigrants at the last minute.

Oh yeah... I forgot this one : there's a plot...

And what I say is that 50% of french quebeckers consider themselves as canadians first ! Think we're not talking about the same thing here...

You're free to say anything you want, but it doesn’t mean you’re right.

That's what polls say, period.

Who says it is unconstitutional? Are you implying that we are criminals? That we should all be thrown in jail?

It's unconstitutional since it doesn't preserve rights granted by the constitution.

Bill 101 is the best thing that ever happened to Quebec!!!That was long overdue. It will never disappear. Either you accept it or you don’t. It's like when someone you love dies. You cry, you hate the situation but hey, what can you do about it? Swallow your pill and move on.

Bill 101 is the worst thing ever, maybe worst than Wilfred and Pierre Pettigrew (I consider the clarity act unconstitutional too...) put together. (Just kidding)

Seriously, the Bill 101 idea is good, on few points. Since it protect a culture, it is good. But since you can't register an english name for a company, it's unconstituional. Do you get my point ?

Hey, don’t take me for an idiot. We need laws to protect French.

Sure... just like we need laws to protect bears from sexual harassment... (just kidding)

Seriously, protect a culture, and force people to integrate into that culture is different. Governement's job is to protect culture, whatever the culture is. If Governement of Quebec protects Quebec's french culture, it should consider protecting Quebec minorities as well. You should not be forced to integrate a culture and have the right to protect your culture, whatever the culture.

Ah Ah! The cat is out of the bag. Your problem is you never accepted the emancipation of Quebeckers. You accuse us of living in the past and yet, you want Quebec to go way back to pre-1960. Because you’re pining for the good ol’ days where the English establishment ruled everything. Tut tut tut. That era of colonialism is over. Stop living in the past.

WTF are you taking about ?

I am sure you can get service in English from the provincial government.. You have hospitals, newspapers, schools, etc. What more do you want?

The right to register english names for companies... basicly, my considerations are economical...

Minorities in Quebec have the same right as the majority. If you’re referring to the anglo minority, sorry but it’s not a minority. English is the main language on the continent.

America's main languages are spanish, english, portugese, chinese, french, others.

North america's main languages are english, spanish, chinese, french, others.

And, worldwide, main language is chinese.

So you refuse to acknowledge what happened in the past?

AND

Stop living in the past.

I know what happened in the past, but as you said : we should stop living in the past. (You should consider following you own advice...)

What about moving to England

England... have you ever visit england ? girl's aren't cute out there, except in North Ireland !

Do you know scotia would like to separate from UK ? Do you there is, in Canada, another separatist party called western bloc ? In every federation, there's problems. I don't say federation is perfect, I say that there's is no problem we can't figure out ! We have to renew our friendship, we can live together, we can be strong together. The key is not separation, it's mutual respect, more responsabilities for provinces (federal competencies should only be post, army, space, energy, etc. Not health, culture, education, etc.)

[Delenda]

Now that is one racist comment. But at least you are honest.

"Know-how" is not an anglo exclusivity, Mr. Ancientwinds.

That's not racism, that's reality !

My point is : we're always stronger together ! Why do you think co-op exist ? It allows people to pay less for more. It's the same thing with the federation. But I don't want a centralized federation, I want a decentralized federation. Basicly, I want the same thing separatists wants for Quebec with an associated-sovereingty (maximum responsabilities for Quebec), but for all provinces (maximum responsabilities for all provinces).

If that were the case, there wouldn't be any separatist movement in Quebec.

I want a decentralized federation, but that won't happen in my lifetime (and I'm young). The ROC isn't going to move an inch.

Canada doesn't need Quebec to destroy it; it is perfectly capable to destroy itself on its own...

[AncientWinds]

If that were the case, there wouldn't be any separatist movement in Quebec.

It's because it's easier to give up than facing problems.

I want a decentralized federation, but that won't happen in my lifetime (and I'm young). The ROC isn't going to move an inch.

I don't think so. There's an increasing unsatisfaction about the federation, all over Canada. This can lead to two things : federation destruction or federation renewal.

I'm sure we'll see a renewed federation in our life time (I'm young too !). When your talking about the ROC, have you ever think they may be sharing your concerns ?

Canada doesn't need Quebec to destroy it; it is perfectly capable to destroy itself on its own...

I agree. There're problems coast to coast ! We really need to figure them out and seriously think about renewing the federation to reflect modern concerns. The main problem with the actual federation is that it didn't evolve since it's creation. But I will never give up like separatists : I believe we're always stronger together.

[Delenda]

Mr. Ancientwinds :

I agree. I don't have any problem speaking french with french speakers. French is a wonderful language. My point is : english speaking people should be allowed to open english stores in Quebec if they want to.

Please clarify what an "English store" is. Does that mean that all employees must be English-speaking? That all clients must be English-speaking? If a French client comes in, are you going to tell him 'Hey, go buy elsewhere, this an English store? ' Does that mean that all advertising will be in English? That all products will be English??? That all the providers will have to be English? That all the trucking or transport companies will have to be English to deal with that "English store"? That all businesses doing business with that store will have to be English?



That sounds pretty mean to me.

My question : who are "real" quebeckers ?

I don't know. Do you consider yourself a real Quebecker?

Those who consider themselves as quebecker first ? If so, the vast majority of people living in Quebec aren't quebeckers !

False, and you know it.

Stats from 1995. Hum, have you ever noticed than 11 years passed by since 1995 ? Things have changed... and for now the separation is not possible with current vote intentions. But, things still can change...

Have you ever noticed that 40% voted yes in 1980?
That almost 50% voted yes in 1995?
Anybody can figure out that the next referendum will be a resounding victory for the 'yes'.

If I were you, I wouldn't wait any longer. You have to anticipate and prepare yourself accordingly. Cut your losses and move on (i.e. put your house up for sale now).

Oh yeah... I forgot this one : there's a plot...

It has been proven. Didn't you watch the news these past 3 years?

It's unconstitutional since it doesn't preserve rights granted by the constitution.

Oh, I forgot this one. Besides living by the Bible, the Coran, the Federal budget, some live by the Constitution.

Bill 101 is the worst thing ever,

For an English-speaking Quebecker, it sure is.

Seriously, the Bill 101 idea is good, on few points. Since it protect a culture, it is good. But since you can't register an english name for a company, it's unconstituional. Do you get my point ?

You're kidding! What about Canadian Tire? I don't recall having seen any 'Pneu canadien' even in Chicoutimi...What about Café Starbucks, McDonald? Harveys? Pizza Hut? Home Depot?

Seriously, protect a culture, and force people to integrate into that culture is different.

I will repeat what I said earlier : NOBODY IS FORCED TO INTEGRATE INTO THE QUEBEC CULTURE BECAUSE NOBODY IS FORCED TO EMIGRATE TO QUEBEC. You don't seem to realized that it is not 1950 anymore.

Governement's job is to protect culture, whatever the culture is. If Governement of Quebec protects Quebec's french culture, it should consider protecting Quebec minorities as well. You should not be forced to integrate a culture and have the right to protect your culture, whatever the culture.

Stop using the term Quebec minorities when you mean anglo-quebeckers. English doesn't need any protection neither in North America nor anywhere else. Have you read my thread on Brussels, Belgium? It is becoming more and more English. English is present everywhere.

Now if you feel "forced" to integrate into a culture that represent over 85% of the population, you're being selfish and contemptuous.

Ah Ah! The cat is out of the bag. Your problem is you never accepted the emancipation of Quebeckers. You accuse us of living in the past and yet, you want Quebec to go way back to pre-1960. Because you’re pining for the good ol’ days where the English establishment ruled everything. Tut tut tut. That era of colonialism is over. Stop living in the past.

WTF are you taking about ?

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

The right to register english names for companies... basicly, my considerations are economical...

Maybe you could open a McDonald or a Harvey franchise.

America's main languages are spanish, english, portugese, chinese, french, others.

North america's main languages are english, spanish, chinese, french, others.

And, worldwide, main language is chinese.

English is omnipresent everywhere.

Chinese? That's not an official language anywhere in NA.

[

I know what happened in the past, but as you said : we should stop living in the past. (You should consider following you own advice...)

and so should you. You want to live in Quebec in those pre-1976 days.

England... have you ever visit england ? girl's aren't cute out there, except in North Ireland !

Yes I have. I haven't looked closely at the girls though. That was not my primary interest. But I guess North Ireland will do, if you want to move out of QUebec...You can also move to the Mouk Mouk Island for all I know...

Do you know scotia would like to separate from UK ?

Yes, and I agree with them.

Do you there is, in Canada, another separatist party called western bloc ?

Yes, and I agree with them.

In every federation, there's problems. I don't say federation is perfect, I say that there's is no problem we can't figure out !

Sorry babe, but it's too late.

We have to renew our friendship, we can live together, we can be strong together.

Go tell that to the ROC.

The key is not separation, it's mutual respect, more responsabilities for provinces (federal competencies should only be post, army, space, energy, etc. Not health, culture, education, etc.)

And I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago.

[AncientWinds]

Please clarify what an "English store" is. Does that mean that all employees must be English-speaking? That all clients must be English-speaking? If a French client comes in, are you going to tell him 'Hey, go buy elsewhere, this an English store? ' Does that mean that all advertising will be in English? That all products will be English??? That all the providers will have to be English? That all the trucking or transport companies will have to be English to deal with that "English store"? That all businesses doing business with that store will have to be English?

With an english name.

I don't know. Do you consider yourself a real Quebecker?

Those who consider themselves as quebecker first ? If so, the vast majority of people living in Quebec aren't quebeckers !

I consider myself as canadian, living in the Province of Quebec, like many people in Quebec (according to polls).

the next referendum will be a resounding victory for the 'yes'.

If I were you, I wouldn't wait any longer. You have to anticipate and prepare yourself accordingly. Cut your losses and move on (i.e. put your house up for sale now).

You know, If separation would be good for Quebec, I would vote yes. Don't be so confident in the result of an hypothetic third referendum... More people are aware separation, in the actual context, is not good for quebeckers. (Economical concerns)

It has been proven. Didn't you watch the news these past 3 years?

People involved in that fraud were all quebeckers... and the fraud occured in the Province of Quebec. The ROC is not to blame : that was a federalist quebeckers plot agains't separatists quebeckers... I get it : for you, it's always the ROC's fault ?

Oh, I forgot this one. Besides living by the Bible, the Coran, the Federal budget, some live by the Constitution.

A constitution is a system, often codified in a written document, which establishes the rules and principles by which an organization is governed. In the case of countries this term refers specifically to a national constitution, which defines the fundamental political principles and establishes the power and duties of each government. Most national constitutions also guarantee certain rights to the people. Historically, before the evolution of modern-style, codified national constitutions, the term constitution could be applied to any important law that governed the functioning of a government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution

That's the way it's suppose to work in a democraty.

Bill 101 is the worst thing ever,

For an English-speaking Quebecker, it sure is.

Who said I'm english-speaking ?

You're kidding! What about Canadian Tire? I don't recall having seen any 'Pneu canadien' even in Chicoutimi...What about Café Starbucks, McDonald? Harveys? Pizza Hut? Home Depot?

They are not quebecker stores. The fact is that you can't register a company with an english name in Quebec, no english street names too, etc...

I will repeat what I said earlier : NOBODY IS FORCED TO INTEGRATE INTO THE QUEBEC CULTURE BECAUSE NOBODY IS FORCED TO EMIGRATE TO QUEBEC. You don't seem to realized that it is not 1950 anymore.

Quebec culture... can you only define it ? What is Quebec's culture ? Tell me... define what Quebec's culture is.

And if you are born in Quebec and have a different culture (if Quebec culture still exists), you should move out ?

We're not in the 50' ! Segregation based on culture, language, gender, race is over...

Stop using the term Quebec minorities when you mean anglo-quebeckers. English doesn't need any protection neither in North America nor anywhere else. Have you read my thread on Brussels, Belgium? It is becoming more and more English. English is present everywhere.

Help help, there're "plein d'ostie d'anglais" everywhere, it's a plot, they want to kill us, help help... grow up !

Now if you feel "forced" to integrate into a culture that represent over 85% of the population, you're being selfish and contemptuous.

It has been proved that culture, in modern world, is no more nation wide : it's now based on personnal choices. For exemple, one can love chinese food, american movies, french music, african clothes, english litterature, etc. Where's the nation wide culture there ?

The right to register english names for companies... basicly, my considerations are economical...

Maybe you could open a McDonald or a Harvey franchise.

A brand named store... wow... and, if I want to register an company named, for exemple, "Powersoft Technologies" ? Quebec is surrounded by english you say, why not having a business name that fits the market ?

America's main languages are spanish, english, portugese, chinese, french, others.

North america's main languages are english, spanish, chinese, french, others.

And, worldwide, main language is chinese.

English is omnipresent everywhere.

Chinese? That's not an official language anywhere in NA.

Yeah... there's a plot...

About chinese : not official in north america, but present. More present than french.

Yes I have. I haven't looked closely at the girls though. That was not my primary interest. But I guess North Ireland will do, if you want to move out of QUebec...You can also move to the Mouk Mouk Island for all I know...

I prefer Canada.

Do you there is, in Canada, another separatist party called western bloc ?

Yes, and I agree with them.

Yeah, it's way much better to be poor alone than rich together... weak alone than strong together...

In every federation, there's problems. I don't say federation is perfect, I say that there's is no problem we can't figure out !

Sorry babe, but it's too late.

As I said : it's easier to give up, altough it's not good for you...

We have to renew our friendship, we can live together, we can be strong together.

Go tell that to the ROC.

The ROC is aware of that. You talk about the ROC, but you are ignorant about it. This is a fact : according to your opinion about the ROC, it is clear that you don't know anything about it.

The key is not separation, it's mutual respect, more responsabilities for provinces (federal competencies should only be post, army, space, energy, etc. Not health, culture, education, etc.)

And I stopped believing in Santa Claus a long time ago.

If it's true, why do you believe every single problem could be solved with a separation ?

Most problems in the Province of Quebec are internal, why do you always tell it's ROC's fault ?

[Delenda]

With an english name.

Come on. Don't be blind. There are lots of stores and businesses with English names in Quebec.

I consider myself as canadian, living in the Province of Quebec, like many people in Quebec (according to polls).

Good for you.

You know, If separation would be good for Quebec, I would vote yes.

I think separation would be good for Quebec. That's why I voted yes. My guess is as good as yours.

Don't be so confident in the result of an hypothetic third referendum... More people are aware separation, in the actual context, is not good for quebeckers. (Economical concerns)

I think Quebec will be sovereign soon. There is no other way. Demographics is on our side. Every year, old people die and young ones get to be 18, the voting age. Old people are mostly federalists and young ones, sovereintists. The old economic arguments will not work the next time. With immigration more and more integrated into French, one has to be blind not to foresee a yes victory. But if you want to live with your blinders, it's up to you. But don't complain at the last minute if you lose money on your house or can't find a job elsewhere quickly. Have a plan now.

People involved in that fraud were all quebeckers... and the fraud occured in the Province of Quebec. The ROC is not to blame : that was a federalist quebeckers plot agains't separatists quebeckers... I get it : for you, it's always the ROC's fault ?

I knew this one would be coming : all those crooked Quebeckers were federalists manipulated and paid by Bay St. and Ottawa. This scandal comes from the ROC. But to find little ugly puppets from Quebec to do the dirty job was easy.

Oh, I forgot this one. Besides living by the Bible, the Coran, the Federal budget, some live by the Constitution.

A constitution is a system, often codified in a written document, which establishes the rules and principles by which an organization is governed. In the case of countries this term refers specifically to a national constitution, which defines the fundamental political principles and establishes the power and duties of each government. Most national constitutions also guarantee certain rights to the people. Historically, before the evolution of modern-style, codified national constitutions, the term constitution could be applied to any important law that governed the functioning of a government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution

That's the way it's suppose to work in a democraty.

O.K., Mr. Preacher. Perhaps you can explain why Quebec was not included in the Constitution...Sorry, but the Bible or even the Coran has more credibility than the Constitution.

Who said I'm english-speaking ?

You sure sound like one. But I was refering to something general : Bill 101 sure is the worst thing that ever happened to anglo-quebeckers, whether you are one or not.

They are not quebecker stores. The fact is that you can't register a company with an english name in Quebec, no english street names too, etc...

Come on. Anybody with any name can open a business. If your name is John Johnson, you can have a business called : Dépanneur John Johnson. So there you have your English name.

Quebec culture... can you only define it ? What is Quebec's culture ? Tell me... define what Quebec's culture is.

...and you don't want to be forced into it, so I gather you know what it is.

And if you are born in Quebec and have a different culture (if Quebec culture still exists), you should move out ?

Can you define exactly what your culture is? Tell me...

We're not in the 50' ! Segregation based on culture, language, gender, race is over...

BUT THERE'S NO SEGREGATION IN QUEBEC AND THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT! Everybody is accepted in the mainstream francophone society. No difference in colour, language, religion whatsoever.

Help help, there're "plein d'ostie d'anglais" everywhere, it's a plot, they want to kill us, help help... grow up !

Pardon? I personally never used these words and don't know anybody who does.

It has been proved that culture, in modern world, is no more nation wide : it's now based on personnal choices. For exemple, one can love chinese food, american movies, french music, african clothes, english litterature, etc. Where's the nation wide culture there ?

And you can have all that in Quebec. So what are you complaining about?

[

A brand named store... wow... and, if I want to register an company named, for exemple, "Powersoft Technologies" ? Quebec is surrounded by english you say, why not having a business name that fits the market ?

I suggest 'Technologies Powersoft'. Then everybody is happy.

About chinese : not official in north america, but present. More present than french.

Mr. Ancientwinds, you seem obsessed by the Chinese language...

Why is that?

I prefer Canada.

Then go to Canada.

Yeah, it's way much better to be poor alone than rich together... weak alone than strong together...

Canada weak without Quebec. Couldn't agree more.

As I said : it's easier to give up, altough it's not good for you...

You know, I always believed that Canada will listen to Quebec only after a 'yes' victory.

The ROC is aware of that. You talk about the ROC, but you are ignorant about it.

Ignorant?

I don't think so. I know the ROC like the bottom of my pocket.

If it's true, why do you believe every single problem could be solved with a separation ?

Don't oversimplify the situation. If I don't know the ROC, then You don't know anything about Quebec.

Most problems in the Province of Quebec are internal, why do you always tell it's ROC's fault ?

That is one notch short of being a racist comment again. You talk about internal problems. We had to pay for the sponsorship scandal. Now the war in the Middle East. You know, the sooner the next referendum, the better. Always quick to point out the straw in our eyes, but failing to see the 2 x 4 in your own eyes.

[AncientWinds]

With an english name.

Come on. Don't be blind. There are lots of stores and businesses with English names in Quebec.

Like Dépanneur John Johnson ?

You know, If separation would be good for Quebec, I would vote yes.

I think separation would be good for Quebec. That's why I voted yes. My guess is as good as yours.

Tell me what separation would be good for, according to facts, not guesses !

Don't be so confident in the result of an hypothetic third referendum... More people are aware separation, in the actual context, is not good for quebeckers. (Economical concerns)

I think Quebec will be sovereign soon. There is no other way. Demographics is on our side. Every year, old people die and young ones get to be 18, the voting age. Old people are mostly federalists and young ones, sovereintists. The old economic arguments will not work the next time. With immigration more and more integrated into French, one has to be blind not to foresee a yes victory. But if you want to live with your blinders, it's up to you. But don't complain at the last minute if you lose money on your house or can't find a job elsewhere quickly. Have a plan now.

There's a lot of young federalists, as there's a lot of old separatists. You always reduce reality to a simple duality, why ?

The old economic arguments will not work the next time.

And the separatists culture argument is no more valid too. Economical concerns will always be valid...

People involved in that fraud were all quebeckers... and the fraud occured in the Province of Quebec. The ROC is not to blame : that was a federalist quebeckers plot agains't separatists quebeckers... I get it : for you, it's always the ROC's fault ?

I knew this one would be coming : all those crooked Quebeckers were federalists manipulated and paid by Bay St. and Ottawa. This scandal comes from the ROC. But to find little ugly puppets from Quebec to do the dirty job was easy.

Still the evil ROC's plot agains't quebeckers....

Oh, I forgot this one. Besides living by the Bible, the Coran, the Federal budget, some live by the Constitution.

O.K., Mr. Preacher. Perhaps you can explain why Quebec was not included in the Constitution...Sorry, but the Bible or even the Coran has more credibility than the Constitution.

The way constitution was brought back to Canada was a mistake. And ROC's admitted it. You know, there's a difference between politicians and population : the ROC's is not ROC's politicians.

Who said I'm english-speaking ?

You sure sound like one. But I was refering to something general : Bill 101 sure is the worst thing that ever happened to anglo-quebeckers, whether you are one or not.

I'm a half french canadian and a half english canadian.

They are not quebecker stores. The fact is that you can't register a company with an english name in Quebec, no english street names too, etc...

Come on. Anybody with any name can open a business. If your name is John Johnson, you can have a business called : Dépanneur John Johnson. So there you have your English name.

And what about a name like "John Johnson's grocery store" in a place like Westmount ?

Quebec culture... can you only define it ? What is Quebec's culture ? Tell me... define what Quebec's culture is.

...and you don't want to be forced into it, so I gather you know what it is.

It's a false culture. It has been, a long time ago, a culture. But since people's culture is based on personnal choices, this is folklore, not culture.

And if you are born in Quebec and have a different culture (if Quebec culture still exists), you should move out ?

Can you define exactly what your culture is? Tell me...

As I said previously, culture is now, in modern world, based on personnal choices. My culture is unique, like everyone's culture.

We're not in the 50' ! Segregation based on culture, language, gender, race is over...

BUT THERE'S NO SEGREGATION IN QUEBEC AND THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT! Everybody is accepted in the mainstream francophone society. No difference in colour, language, religion whatsoever.

Everybody is accepted if he is like the average francophone population (mainstream). That's what you say... Why don't you say : Everybody is accepted, period ?

]quote]It has been proved that culture, in modern world, is no more nation wide : it's now based on personnal choices. For exemple, one can love chinese food, american movies, french music, african clothes, english litterature, etc. Where's the nation wide culture there ?

And you can have all that in Quebec. So what are you complaining about?

If you agree with it, and say you can have all that in Quebec, you also agree that Quebec's culture is no more. If you admit Quebec's culture is no more, you also agree that separatist's culture argument is not valid.

About chinese : not official in north america, but present. More present than french.

Mr. Ancientwinds, you seem obsessed by the Chinese language...

Why is that?

I'm trying to show you that every language in the world, every culture, every nation will have to change, dissapear, evolve or die.

I prefer Canada.

Then go to Canada.

I'm already in Canada, since Quebec is a Province...

Yeah, it's way much better to be poor alone than rich together... weak alone than strong together...

Canada weak without Quebec. Couldn't agree more.

Canada is less strong without Quebec, Quebec is weak without Canada.

As I said : it's easier to give up, altough it's not good for you...

You know, I always believed that Canada will listen to Quebec only after a 'yes' victory.

Quebec already have more than any other province, and more it could have as a country, what do you want ?

The ROC is aware of that. You talk about the ROC, but you are ignorant about it.

Ignorant?

I don't think so. I know the ROC like the bottom of my pocket.

You know the ROC... how come ? Tell me !

How many years living in the ROC ? How many time did you visit each province ? Where do you take your info about the ROC ? How many friend do you have in the ROC ?

If it's true, why do you believe every single problem could be solved with a separation ?

Don't oversimplify the situation. If I don't know the ROC, then You don't know anything about Quebec.

I live in Quebec, I've lived in the ROC.

Most problems in the Province of Quebec are internal, why do you always tell it's ROC's fault ?

That is one notch short of being a racist comment again. You talk about internal problems. We had to pay for the sponsorship scandal. Now the war in the Middle East. You know, the sooner the next referendum, the better. Always quick to point out the straw in our eyes, but failing to see the 2 x 4 in your own eyes.

[/quote]

Because war in middle east is ROC's fault too ?

[Delenda]

Like Dépanneur John Johnson ?

Souds good to me.

Tell me what separation would be good for, according to facts, not guesses !

Don't you read the main thread on Politiquebec?

There's a lot of young federalists, as there's a lot of old separatists. You always reduce reality to a simple duality, why ?

Because on the last referendums, there were 2 possibilities : yes and no.

I don't recall having seen on the bulletins any ifs and buts or maybes.

And the separatists culture argument is no more valid too. Economical concerns will always be valid...

Economical concerns are valid for Canada, I agree. No price is high enough to lose us.

The way constitution was brought back to Canada was a mistake. And ROC's admitted it. You know, there's a difference between politicians and population : the ROC's is not ROC's politicians.

True. It's worse.

Who said I'm english-speaking ?

I'm a half french canadian and a half english canadian.

So? I am 100 % French (as far as I know).

And what about a name like "John Johnson's grocery store" in a place like Westmount ?

I would agree with it, but only after Quebec gets its independence.

It's a false culture. It has been, a long time ago, a culture. But since people's culture is based on personnal choices, this is folklore, not culture.

Hey wo, wo, wait a minute. Are you saying our culture is false?
We have a language other than English ( a thing very difficult to accept among english speakers) . We have a civil code and our own institutions.

But that has always been the ROC's plan : try to prove to Quebeckers that they don't exist.

As I said previously, culture is now, in modern world, based on personnal choices. My culture is unique, like everyone's culture.

But you haven't defined it.

If you agree with it, and say you can have all that in Quebec, you also agree that Quebec's culture is no more.

Having our own culture doesn't mean we are closed to what's happening everywhere in the world.

If you admit Quebec's culture is no more, you also agree that separatist's culture argument is not valid.

I'm trying to show you that every language in the world, every culture, every nation will have to change, dissapear, evolve or die.

Oh, you mean like the English language in Quebec?

I'm already in Canada, since Quebec is a Provnce...

For the time being.

Canada is less strong without Quebec, Quebec is weak without Canada.

That is pretentious. Even Charest says Quebec could go in its own. But he has to be careful cuz his real bosses are in the ROC, in Ottawa and on Bay St. Remember he was parachuted in Quebec in 1998. And I am sure he didn't accept the job for nothing, if you know what I mean...

Quebec already have more than any other province, and more it could have as a country, what do you want ?

Oh the nice sentence that comes right out of the seventies (and perhaps the sixties) What does Quebec want?

What else is new? If 3 decades of federal-provincial consultations have not answered that question, then Canada is already dead.

You know the ROC... how come ? Tell me !

How many years living in the ROC ? How many time did you visit each province ? Where do you take your info about the ROC ? How many friend do you have in the ROC ?

Geez are you ever nosy!

I lived a few years in the ROC and know a lot of people.


I live in Quebec, I've lived in the ROC.

Most problems in the Province of Quebec are internal, why do you always tell it's ROC's fault ?

Because war in middle east is ROC's fault too ?

To my knowledge, it is not Duceppe who convinced Harper to go to the Middle East.

[AncientWinds]

Because on the last referendums, there were 2 possibilities : yes and no.

I don't recall having seen on the bulletins any ifs and buts or maybes.

We were talking about demography in vote intentions.

True. It's worse.

So you condamn ROC's population ? Isn't ROC-bashing ? There're really good people in the ROC, as there're really good people in Quebec.

I would agree with it, but only after Quebec gets its independence.

Hey wo, wo, wait a minute. Are you saying our culture is false?
We have a language other than English ( a thing very difficult to accept among english speakers) . We have a civil code and our own institutions.

Quebec's culture is folklore. As I said, culture is, in modern days, based on personnal choices. If it's based on personnal choices, it's not nation wide. If it's not nation wide, there're quebeckers with culture (wich is different for each quebecker), but no quebecker's culture.

But you haven't defined it.

As culture is based on personnal choice, decribing my culture is not relevant.

Having our own culture doesn't mean we are closed to what's happening everywhere in the world.

I agree. But there's is not nation wide culture in Quebec, as there is no nation wide culture in the ROC.

Oh, you mean like the English language in Quebec?

If it's a consequence of social evolution, why not ? If french dissapear due to a social evolution, what's wrong ? If japanese becomes the world's main language, what's wrong ? Evolution is not only a biological concept, it may be social and linguistic too.

That is pretentious. Even Charest says Quebec could go in its own. But he has to be careful cuz his real bosses are in the ROC, in Ottawa and on Bay St. Remember he was parachuted in Quebec in 1998. And I am sure he didn't accept the job for nothing, if you know what I mean...

John James Charest said : Quebec has everything to be an independant country, but it wouldn't be good for quebeckers.

I agree with it. Quebec could be a country, but would have to face a decreasing life quality and economy.

Oh the nice sentence that comes right out of the seventies (and perhaps the sixties) What does Quebec want?

No, the question is for you, not quebeckers. More than 50% of Quebec wants Canada.

I lived a few years in the ROC and know a lot of people.

AND

True. It's worse.

Do they know what you really think about them ?

To my knowledge, it is not Duceppe who convinced Harper to go to the Middle East.

For your information, Paul Martin sent troops in Middle-East, not Harper...

[Delenda]

Because on the last referendums, there were 2 possibilities : yes and no.

I don't recall having seen on the bulletins any ifs and buts or maybes.

We were talking about demography in vote intentions.

Everybody knows there are more sovereigntists among the young, and more federalists among the old. Otherwise, why would the PLC and the PLQ charter busses from old age residences to the voting polls? Why would the PLC call an election on June 28? Because a lot the young would be absent and the young don't vote PLC, usually.

True. It's worse.

So you condamn ROC's population ? Isn't ROC-bashing ? There're really good people in the ROC, as there're really good people in Quebec.

Hey Mr. Knowitall, when you find in the ROC's media an article that condemns that Quebecistan BS and racist article, and you post it here, I will revise my position. The ROC is unanimous in its opinion of Quebec. Politicians, the population, everybody.

Of course there are good people everywhere. In Canada, Quebec, the US, Irak, everywhere. For instance, I am sure if there was a fire or another natural catastrophe in French Quebec, the ROC would help. So would Quebec if it was the opposite.

But for the ROC and I know what I am talking about, the idea of French Quebeckers governing themselves just doesn't make any sense. Or it makes sense but they don't want to admit it, let alone let it happen. I will tell you what the ROC wants : a united Canada to maintain their borders intact. Period. French and Quebeckers is just an irritant in the whole picture.

I would agree with it, but only after Quebec gets its independence.

True. After Quebec gets its independence, I am all for allowing English signs. Because we will have at last the right to function in our language and the right to exist. Ottawa won't have any say in our affairs. Anybody that want to advertise in English, Spanish, Chinese, Urdu or Croatian will be welcome to do so...for me anyways.

I already said that the anglo privileges like health care and education will be maintained in an independent Quebec. See it's not that bad. You're welcome to stay and if you don't want to, well we won't twist your arm.

Quebec's culture is folklore.

That's not exactly so. You wish it were like that. Canada's plan is to make French disappear in the long run. But that is a poor argument to win your next referendum.

As I said, culture is, in modern days, based on personnal choices.

And in Quebec, our personal choice is French.

As culture is based on personnal choice, decribing my culture is not relevant.

Perhaps because it is folklore.

I agree. But there's is not nation wide culture in Quebec, as there is no nation wide culture in the ROC.

Perhaps, but the common language in Quebec is French and English in the ROC.

Oh, you mean like the English language in Quebec?

If it's a consequence of social evolution, why not ? If french dissapear due to a social evolution, what's wrong ? If japanese becomes the world's main language, what's wrong ? Evolution is not only a biological concept, it may be social and linguistic too.

Why not? Because if it didn't matter, you wouldn't be on this site trying to prove your point.

John James Charest said : Quebec has everything to be an independant country, but it wouldn't be good for quebeckers.

He has to follow his bosses' lines sometimes. He has a mission to accomplish.

I agree with it. Quebec could be a country, but would have to face a decreasing life quality and economy.

Listen, there is no precedent in NA so nobody really can say exactly what is going to happen. Neither Canada nor Quebec. There's a little bit of uncertainty. I do believe that Quebec would be better off making its own decisions and managing its own money. I do believe that Quebec should stop sending its taxes to Ottawa. I do believe that Quebec has a lot of resources, both natural and people, and would do great on its own. I do believe that Quebec doesn't need Queen Bee and all that crap as its head of state. I just hate that paternalistic attitude from the feds. Canada is an English country trying to tell the French minority what is good for them. And what they say is good for them (the French) is not really good for them. It is good for Anglo Canada first and foremost.

No, the question is for you, not quebeckers. More than 50% of Quebec wants Canada.

In 1995. It's 2006 now.

Do they know what you really think about them ?

They know that what I think about them is the same as what they think about me. Does that answer your question?

For your information, Paul Martin sent troops in Middle-East, not Harper...

Martin or Harper, it doesn't make any difference.

French Quebec didn't have anything to do with electing any one of them.

[Delenda]

EN PRIME, DANS LE NATIONAL POST D'AUJOURD'HUI, CETTE MERDE, ENCADRÉE COMME LETTRE DU JOUR :

Being Jewish shouldn’t be an issue in Canada

Having left montreal in 1972, I am in no position to comment the current status of anti-semitism in Quebec. I might note inpassing, however, that if the recent incidents of prominent Quebecers marching in anti-Israel rallies, (non, ils sont contre la guerre. Nuance. Si t'as pas encore compris ça, t'as bien fait de sacrer ton camp) or the musings of former premier Jacques Parizeau concerning the “ethnic vote” in the last referendum, are any indication, I am afraid that apparently not much has changed.

I can well remember my days of growing up in Montreal, where it was commonplace to hear anti-Semitic taunts. (Is that so? In French or in English? McGill had quotas on Jews) What is noteworthy for me, by contrast, is the experience I have had in the past 33 years of living in Edmonton. (good for you) Soon after I joined the academic staff at the university of Alberta in 1973, a former Montreal Jewish educator, Dr. Myer Horowitz, became president of the University of Alberta. (so what's your point? That no Jew was president of McGill? What does it have to do with French Quebec?) Tevie Miller, a prominent lawyer, became chancellor of that same university and Associate Chief Justice of the Court of Queen’s Bench. The current, and popular, mayor of Edmonton is Stephen Mandel, a guy whose Jewish sense of humour and shtick are part of his communication style. I can list many other Edmonton Jews who have attained leadership positions in both the public and private sectors, despite the relativelity small size of this population.

What is remarkable about this is not the accomplishments of these deserving individuals, but the fact that their religion was not an issue. In a province full of immigrants and “minorities”, being one is no big deal. So the real issue for those Montrealers who are writing in to defend the improving state of minority-majority relationships in Quebec, is not whether things are better now than they were 50 years ago. The important question is whether there will ever come a tinme for Quebecers when being Jewish, or English, or anythjing else, will no longer matter so much, and when any qualified person can grow up to become premier or mayor or whatever else they want to be. (ho ho, if Jews avoid French Quebecers like the plague and refuse to integrate, then how the hell can they become mayor, or director or whatever in a French environment?)



Lewis Klar, professor and former dean of law, University of Alberta, Edmonton

[Guêpe]

I didn't bother reading through this whole thread, as it struck me as a lot of bickering...(what else is new on the internet?! )

Did pick up on one this which was the debate around who is a "real Quebecker"...

I spent most of the last federal election in Quebec (Montreal, Laurentienns and as far east as Trois Rivières...) anyhow, during the debates Paul Martin referred to himself as a Quebecker and proud of that, but also proud to be Canadian. The buzz amongst many in the room (and afterwards) was that it's an a bit rich for him to label himself as such.

Personally, I find it a bit rich that he not be allowed to call himself a Quebecker. But thus is the nature of identity politics.

[Delenda]

I didn't bother reading through this whole thread, as it struck me as a lot of bickering...(what else is new on the internet?! )

Could you please reduce your picture, it's taking up a lot of space. So you didn't bother reading this whole thread. Why is that? Does it mean that demeaning Quebec in the ROC is acceptable for you? It's funny how everything being said in Quebec is scrutinized...like money and the ethnic vote. In the year 3,000 it will still make headlines in the ROC.

Did pick up on one this which was the debate around who is a "real Quebecker"...

I spent most of the last federal election in Quebec (Montreal, Laurentienns and as far east as Trois Rivières...) anyhow, during the debates Paul Martin referred to himself as a Quebecker and proud of that, but also proud to be Canadian. The buzz amongst many in the room (and afterwards) was that it's an a bit rich for him to label himself as such.

Personally, I find it a bit rich that he not be allowed to call himself a Quebecker. But thus is the nature of identity politics.

Paul Martin calls himself a Quebecker when he needs our votes. Don't be so naïve. Otherwise, he is Canadian. I bet he'd never heard of Michaëlle Jean before appointing her. His contact with French Quebec is limited to a few briefing sessions by his 'service frogs'. He has an adress in Quebec and that's about it. Yes indeed, Paul Martin is a Quebecker when it suits him.

[Delenda]

Francophone centre proposal is ludicrous
* * * * The Ottawa Citizen
Published: Monday, August 28, 2006
Re: Francophones want city's help for west-end 'home,' Aug. 24.

The Centre Multiservices de l'Ouest d'Ottawa's proposal to use taxpayers' dollars to build a separate sports and multi-use facility at Hunt Club and Greenbank Roads to accommodate francophones is absolutely ludicrous.

The proposed location is only about one kilometre away from the largest and most expensive sporting, conference and multi-cultural and bilingual municipal facility in the City of Ottawa -- the Nepean Sportsplex. (du français au Sportsplex? J'aimerais bien savoir où) Our taxpayers pay plenty of money to keep this facility going for the use of all cultural groups.

The idea of using public funds to build a separate facility for francophones so they will "have a gymnasium of our own so we can run our own sports leagues," in isolation from other cultural groups such as English, Asian, Italian, East Indian and East European is incomprehensible, inequitable and, most important, divisive. (ben oui, pas le droit d'ëtre francophone en Ontario. On a compris)

And, of course, what would follow from an institution such as this is inevitable complaints that the municipality and local shops aren't providing enough French-speaking employees, signs and other services.

How many people living in the "west end" (and, where does that begin and end?) speak only English, French, Chinese, Italian, Punjabi, Russian and so on? My guess is that the French-only population represents less than five per cent of the total. Not that this really matters.

We are not living in a land of honey with unlimited financial resources. (o.k., let's get rid of the Sportsplex...)The west end of the city is currently very well served with all the modern sports and meeting facilities it needs for all to use and enjoy.

The proposed location and funding for a new facility would be much better used for the building of affordable housing or a multilingual medical clinic with numerous image-scanning capabilities.

John A. Kane,

Nepean

© The Ottawa Citizen 2006

[Delenda]

Une école anglaise ferme dans le WI et on s'empresse d'en faire un soundoff!

Gang de racistes. Combien d'écoles françaises ont fermé dans le ROC?



Montreal
English School Closings

more english school closings! Instead of closing all these english schools for lack of enrollment why doesn't the school commission go after Bill 104 in court? You would think that as tax paying Canadians the anglophone community would be able to educate their children in the language of their choice!
POSTED BY JOHNNY192 At 9:41AM ET on August 31, 2006
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Welcome to La Belle Province where francophone bigotry still exists. If you are anything else other than a 3rd or 4th generation francophone then you are lower than spit on a sidewalk in the eyes of the High and Mighty french population. They just can't get over the fact that the English kicked their asses on the Plains of Abraham and then allowed them to continue their lifestyle ( A Big MISTAKE on the English side ). Now they think they are the chosen of god or something.
POSTED BY WUBBA At 12:32PM ET on September 1, 2006

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was great disdain that I read an article in a local West Quebec newspaper proclaiming "800 language complaints in two months" by a Mr Perreault of Imperatif francais (IF).

His dubious claim would appear to an unabashed campaign for his own role, and subsequently his own percieved importance within the language police to eliminate the English language in a highly bilingual area of Canada.

Projects to protect the rights against such discriminatory practices in Manitoba and Ontario have proved to be highly successful in perserving the French-Canadian culture and language in predominently bilingual enclaves within those provinces

Why is it that Mr. Perreault insists that "the sky is falling" in relation to the English Quebecers right to their native language and cultural? Canada is a cultural Mosaic, not an assimilated "melting pot.

This is a somewhat laughable attempt by an individual pandering for an appointed post to satisfy his own ill-concieved importance.

For the
POSTED BY ZEUS At 1:58PM ET on September 1, 2006

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Ah well, here we go again! Another installment in the ethno-centric, racist, bastard quebecois (e-crbq) and the pee-kissed's "final solution" (choice of words very intentional) for the English problem in qc. And, the English castrati (The Gazoo, CJAD, Major Retailers, Marcus Tabatchnick and the school bored (choice of spelling also intentional) et al) caving in without even a squeal. There is NOTHING positive left in distinctland and this shows that the unfortunates that remain are just circling the drainpipe. Best thing to happen would be for the remaining non-e-crbq's to evacuate distinctland by any means possible and let the infection that stays behind rot in its own puss. Harsh words you might say, but sadly well deserved. I have seen and been on the receiving end of the e-crbq's warped application of their own version of the nazi act and this is an exact parallel. I'm just waiting for a "crystalenuit." I won't be surprised when it arrives.
POSTED BY ESS At 8:51PM ET on September 2, 2006

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Forgot to include the "Compliance qc" in the above-mentioned group of castrati. Many apologies for the oversight.
POSTED BY ESS At 12:50AM ET on September 3, 2006


Well, well, well...Back again. Verrrrry interesting.
POSTED BY ESS At 6:00PM ET on September 7, 2006


ESS: Well said: If the remaining Anglophones and anglophone businesses were to leave It would probably just add fuel to the PEE-Quists argument, but I really don't see anyother way out. I for one was born in Da Swamp but I tell very few people that. I live in Ontario and frequenly visit friends and relatives in N.B. and discovered that a full tank of gas in Hawkesbury will get me to the other side of the N.B. border. A couple of bottles of water and a sandwich is enough to fill me up until I can eat In CANADA. I have found the Qeerbeckers a rascist, bigoted, small minded, loud, rude, igorant, self serving bunch of bush frogs and avoid any contact with them unless absolutely neccessary.
POSTED BY WUBBA At 10:08AM ET on September 8, 2006

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The law applies for elementary and hi schools only. At college (cégep) or university anybody can attempt to go at any institution they want.

The other problem is that [out of downtown Montreal]; there is almost no place to go. I live in Laval and I would have to drive 45 minutes to get there, so I've changed my mind and decided to attempt a French cégep.
POSTED BY JOBASTIAN At 11:09AM ET on September 8, 2006

[NorduNord]

C'est tellement rafraîchissant de se faire dire: We luv ya Keebek !!!


...

AH ! Quelle belle thérapie d'groupe !

OOPS! sorry dere, euh sorry dere, I waz djust saying dat U r great guys to luv us so much !!!

Hey Delenda, check this out: http://www.politiquebec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20685&start=0
Zach Gebello2
Posté le: Dim Sep 10, 2006 11:49 am



.

[Sebb]

Loved this one:

«Official bilingualism was the vision of someone born and raised in Quebec. It doesn't reflect the reality in the RoC. »

Right on, a lure for the québecois to stay in Canada.

JMS

Exactly !

La langue française a été combattu vaillamment par les Orangistes protestants et anglicisateurs.

Le français langue commune aurait pu devenir une Réalité au Manitoba notamment mais a été férocément combattu...